Beware: denied Seven Stars for "overcomped"

Eh, the main people with CK are those spending at least 40k a year on AA, not influencers, and they are known to have a bias towards customers who are booking profitable tickets (high spend per mile flown)

Both CK and 7* are fundamentally the same thing: a program for the very best customers that the org has. AA plays it differently because they have people who can funnel millions of dollars of spend to them; of course they treat them specially. But so would CET when the relationship is right. Do you think CET has never made an exception to the terms of how 7 Stars works for a huge player?

 

Except that is not how the comps work at all. If someone is in there every day spending $50 the casino doesn't care to give them any rewards because they know they will be there every day spending $50. BUT, if someone else is there only occasionally, but spends $1000 every time there are there, the casino has more incentive to make that person happy AND get them to come back by offering food/free play. In one day that person has spend 5% of what the daily person spends in a year. Get that person back in to the casino for 5 days and now they have 25% of the daily player spend in 1.5% of the days.

To put it another way....ask a waitress if they would rather get a .10 cent tip from a coffee drinker every day or have someone come in once a month and tip them 20 dollars. 99% of the people would say they want the $20.

Also, claiming that El Dorado did better financially because of how they treat 'regulars' is really over simplifying an incredibly complex issue. CET had double the revenue in 2018 as El Dorado. CET's issues were vast but I would bet of the top 100 reasons ELD is buying CET, how CET treated local players was not in that list. ELD has FAR more 'local' casinos because they couldn't find another way to break in to the 'destination' part of Las Vegas without buying someone else.

 

CET also offers a certain amount of base comps (the lounge, the diamond dinner, etc.) that eat up the first $X of comp value for these low ADT players.

 

That is very true. When he was not getting comped rooms, that should have been a sign that CET didn't consider him a 'high value' player. I know people that went to Vegas once over a year ago and still get offers for comped rooms from MLife and CET.

 

Still not comparing apples with apples - Concierge Key is an invitation only, AA choose to opt you in based on their unpublished criteria. They don't offer you extra tier points saying they will aid you on your way to attaining Concierge Key. Seven Stars has criteria, Caesars chooses to opt you out on unpublished criteria. They state on my Membership page that I am only so many points short of requalifying for Seven Stars. They don't say that I am only so many points from reaching a level where I will be considered for requalification for Seven Stars.

 

Well, I am one of those players as I am currently Seven Stars and my AC host often says he appreciates my business and making reservations with him. I assume he does this in part because CET in AC is not doing well relative to Hard Rock, Borgata, etc. and he knows in AC I can play elsewhere, which I have started to do.

I don't think CET will "screw" me so to speak but what happened to OP raises some additional flags beyond the recent degradation in Seven Stars benefits and as @3544quebec mentioned, for me it is also about transparency.

Maybe I wasn't as informed as I should have been -- shame on me -- but this is just another reason for me to play less at CET in 2020 (and I am already Seven Stars through 2020). The amount of my potential reduction in play -- and I am just one player -- could have potentially covered whatever "loss" CET incurred from OP being a Seven Stars in 2020. CET is going to change the rules, again, I am sure for 2020 and further downgrade Seven Stars. It might have been better for them to have just taken this hit from this one player and my guess a handful of others and adjusted the rules accordingly as of February 1, 2020 to provide greater transparency, especially given the marketing message about the benefits of gaining a higher tier using multiplier promos.

 

I don't think you can say coin-in is more or less important than ADT, since coin-in (or average wager at the tables) is a component of ADT. Plus, coin-in doesn't equal revenue. As your own stats have shown, your theoretical loss was somewhere in the neighborhood of $3500, but your actual loss was closer to $6500. Coin-in is potential revenue (only realized if you lose the wager). Ultimately, this is a discussion about comps, though, and comps are in almost every situation measured by ADT. 7 Star is a status level that provides additional comps. It sucks that they didn't give it to you and it sucks (but is understandable) that they didn't make it more obvious to you upfront that hitting certain threshholds wouldn't guarantee you that level. But ultimately, your play simply didn't justify the status and accompanying comps you were hoping for. Either get over it or don't (and either stop gambling or find somewhere new to play where you will be happier with the rewards program)

 

You are really way off here.

You‘re saying people have different playing patterns - you gave a samplesize of 100 days, that shows very well how your playing pattern is. So take that out of the theory and being a potential variable the casino does not consider.

In theory you are right about machines being empty and your maths on a 50$ a day player versus a 1000$ one timer - but that‘s not how the casino industry works unfortunately. You got a pretty wrong understanding of what's considered how, which also goes for your coin-in vs ADT statement.

150k coin in with 75% VP at say 3% and let the rest be slots at 10% hold over 100 days is simply not a customer in the casino's eye. Just put yourself in their position, what does make you an attractive customer to them?

6k is certainly not a tiny amount, but in the world of gambling it is, especially if you're talking over the course of a year. Add on top the 1h playtime per day which is proof you're not a gambler (=customer).

Again, I understand your frustration and I don't want to try to bash you or say anything negative, rather than try to help you to understand why you got treated unfair in your eyes, which is how you see the situation. The 7 stars tier is clearly by invitation only - now given your rep mentioned to continue to play to hit it, it has a bad taste in it, but otherwise, why do you take it for granted to receive an invite?

Bottom line to the story seeing it in a realistic way: 6k loss over a year is not enough to gain any interest by any reasonable sized casino, especially not to receive preferrential treatment. 150k coin in spread over 100 days, with the average gaming time of a day being an hour is the same. The only thing that I'd say is unfair is the rep heating you up to achieve 7 stars, which then again is their job and you're talking to a marketing person...

All I can say is play to play and not play for comps/tiers - the later will come naturally if your play justifies it.

 

This. Throw in 4-5k+ of coin-in in a day at a new players card and watch offers coming in. If you're not getting offers/a host at a regular level of play, there's a pretty high chance your play just does not justify much of freebies.

 

As a seven stars player I was interested to see how this one would turn out. Based on the info provided, although it sucks for OP, I think they are within their rights to withhold that status - these are the exact circumstances that I would have thought would give rise to discretionary denial (other than marker or security issues). OP is not a valuable customer to them (in fact costs them money) and based on the data is not likely to ever be valuable.

I do not think this denial will have any effect on my play or view of the company or it’s promotions. However, if use of the 5x promotion (or others) is cause for denial in other circumstances that would be a different story.

That said, sucks for you, nice try and if I were you I would fight it since there is no stated criteria and you did in fact put in some play. If you can be diamond through paying for founders card maybe you can get seven stars by staying 100!!! nights and hitting all promos and fighting for it. Maybe they will give you a compromise reward other than seven stars (or that 80k level) for all of your efforts.

 

I dont think OP necessarily costs them money.

However OP would absolutely cost them money if given 7* because they'd no longer be paying for any rooms, would be staying potentially a LOT of the time, and would not be playing much relative to the typical 7*

 

7 stars was nominally unpublished criteria for years.

And I think you are still drawing meaningless comparisons between certain rules when the meaningful comparison is purpose. The goal of all frequent user programs is to reward profitable customers. The specific rules are arbitrary. Heck, CET is going to go way above and beyond the base 7 stars benefits for really good customers, just as AA will go well beyond the base FF rules as needed - e.g. my employer automatically receives a discount on ALL AA tickets as long as we spend more than $X per quarter.

CET, UA, and AA both have decided to have a top tier benefit where they can arbitrarily put in whatever customers they want that drive the most profit. The core difference is CET's best customers are individuals/families, not large corporations, so the shape of how this works varies relative to an airline or a hotel chain.

 

they all have been cutting comp/player benefits for years. Look at MLife cutting HGS gift card rates. I agree that you should respond to what they do, but my personal MO is to assume that the best programs will receive small cuts every year - something like Bob Dancer's old commentary about assuming a ~10% reduction over what you got last time as a way to make sure you're not cutting it too close.

Personally, I think you have the wrong perspective on this. You should be GLAD they are cutting the most marginal players, because that is something that they are doing in order to protect the current benefits. This should only concern you if you think you are a very marginal player. Not to get into the exact data, but if you're losing a healthy amount of theo per year and have decent ADT which generates loads of comp rooms and decent free play/food type of offers...I don't think this has any relevance for you.

How many 7 stars on earth aren't getting comped at Harrahs AC on a Wednesday in November?

 

I agree that a bunch of reports that they're cracking down on tier credit multipliers for 7* would be the sort of thing that would bother me more as a customer - if I were using those to get there, then that would be a real concern.

But if you're losing 10k a year and have an ADT of $400 a day or something like that, gosh, I just don't see what there is to sweat about in that OP

I do think you could see them think more about players with very, very low ADT overall - although they've clearly tried to address that by how tier credits are awarded on the games (e.g. good luck finding full pay VP at $10 per point)

 

This isn't quite relevant to CET. They value a room at 'X + resort fee' and you are expected to deliver value 'X + resort fee' to get the room. By this argument, I can say that if I give an airline $5 for an empty seat, they are lucky to have me, since that seat would be empty anyway and the added feul for carrying me is negligible. But that is not how it works. The airline, like CET, wants a certain revenue per seat. If they don't get that, they would rather leave the room empty, just like the do with guests who pay the full room value (including resort fees).

And, of course, we aren't discussing whether CET should continue letting you stay there (they are). We are discussing whether CET should give you $4400+ in benefits on a invitational 7* tier.

You are partially right and wrong. 150K coin in is not low play IF you made 150K coin in over 1 or a few days stay. CET would be happy to have you as a customer if you did so. However, 150K coin in over 100 nights is negligibly low play (since your ADT will be around $30 a day). Think in terms of ADT (or coin in per day), not coin in.

In your original post, I was pretty pissed off that CET did that. Now, with the context that you stayed there a 100 days, the decision makes more sense. Don't get me wrong, I would still like CET to be decent and generous and give you the 7*, just like I would like all casinos to be a bit more generous with comps. But looking at it from the casinos perspective, I understand why they are doing it. And even worse, from your perspective, I doubt any casino would have done any differently

 

To the OP: After going thru over a 130 posts, one thing is clear. CET doesn't seem to really doesn't care if they keep your business or not. I don't mean to sound harsh, but you don't seem to be the kind of player they want to attract.

Also, demanding your records under what you perceive to be the law (I have no idea if that law requires them to give you the records or not), is going to entirely shut the conversation down. They probably ran that email past one of their army of attorneys who I suspect, told them to cease communications with you. So, you are left with three choices:

1, Go scorched earth, and file a complaint with NGC, or anyone that will listen or even hire an attorney. Although I'm not a lawyer, in my opinion, I wouldn't think that this would have a very high probability of success. Also, I imagine that you might very well get banned from CET.

2. Go see if you can get a better deal elsewhere. If another casino values you more, you can drop CET in a heartbeat.

3. Suck it up. Accept that unless you CONSISTENTLY increase your gambling, CET will continue to only give you the minimal amount of comps given to any Diamond with over 25K in points.

You may not like these options, but unless I'm missing something, these are the only ones on the table.

 

Wow, finally made it through the posts. I can understand the angst but also the reason.

I've been 7* for a few years and to be honest, have never been able to use the full value. Also, I haven't been in a Diamond lounge in a couple years as I don't see the point. Free drinks in the casino, comped meals or scads of people going after the free food in the DL, not worth it. I have the TCs this year and hope I don't have a similar issue as this will probably be my last year. Retiring, etc. We have never used the cruise offer but plan to next summer, if they don't screw that up. Anyway, if I was near AC, I would probably settle for Diamond and reap the benefits to the max. Forget 7*. Unfortunately, the nearest CET is about 7 hour drive.... so fly to Vegas instead when I can.

I understand the decision but wonder if the impact on brand is worth not giving 7* in this case, or any case. I mean google, yelp, trip adviser, VMB, VF and many others rating businesses. Seems they would just pass on this.

Best of luck

 

I always find that thought amusing that a company should do whatever it takes to avoid a bad review. They don't really care about one or even several bad reviews. I have stayed in some nice hotels where I thought everything was flawless, and it never fails that someone will compare it to the slums of Calcutta or a similar metaphor (often these people seemed to think they should get their money back)!

I remember reading somewhere that "the public has the memory of a senile dog". I have always liked that quote, and believe it to be true. Truthfully, if a company always gave in just to prevent "smack talk", they probably wouldn't stay in business very long!

 

I mean, this isn't a comp dinner bill because there was a pube in Grandma's tomato soup....it's the most exclusive tier of a huge casino club with potentially thousands of dollars in benefits.

 

If it leads to people questioning the 'quest for 7*' and whether they'll actually get invited to the status they believe they are 'earning' it might impact CET more than a bad room review. Some folks might just stop at Diamond. Some might switch to a club where the tiers are well defined. Maybe OP could start a picket line. Maybe the competition could emphasis that unlike CET you know what it takes to get the top status and be treated like Caesar himself.