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Beware: denied Seven Stars for "overcomped"

Discussion in 'Comps' started by skyscanner, Nov 4, 2019.

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  1. skyscanner

    skyscanner Low-Roller

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    Talk to all the VP's @CET Vegas and to those @CET Atlantic City

    A host approached me at Paris yesterday while I was filling that NVSB220 request, saying that if the AC VP found me "valuable" and OK'd the upgrade, then the Vegas VP would change his mind.

    I was surprised talking to the Paris CR supervisor, where my dominant property is, to hear that "oh, you played in AC, not here" or "you did 5X promotions". CET Vegas and CET Atlantic City have different marketing strategies and do not actually see themselves as sister casinos. AC is saying that "Vegas gets all the tourists, they don't need promotions to get people in, they have players all year round, while for us it is mainly during summer" while Vegas says "5X Tier point promotions are unheard of" and is very possessive and
    wants you to play in Vegas, since 9 of the 35 properties are in Vegas anyways.

    If there is no positive outcome, I will try to publicize what happened as much as possible, so that people do not take the huge leap from 25K TCs to 150K TCs thinking, as I did, that if they reach the magic number and have no markers and no security issues, they will be granted the 7* status. They also need to make sure that they are not "overcomped", which is a label so easy to achieve nowadays. In your app or in your account you never see your numbers, just the tier credits and your reward credits and your win/loss statements. You do not see your ADT, nor do you see how many comps you've used, so you never really know where you stand. I also want CET to either drop the "invitation only" and say "150K TCs, no markers and no security issues" or just remove the 150K TCs completely, such as for Noir. The way it is set up right now, they set you a goal, and when you think you've reached the goal, "Hurrray!" they come and kill your excitement with "wait, there are also these extra factors we haven't told you about up to now and that, what a surprise, you do not meet!".
     
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  2. pressitagain

    pressitagain High-Roller

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    If AC did the promo....you should have waited for them to process the status . Then, you wouldn’t have had an issue.....

    Am I understanding that correctly?
     
  3. skyscanner

    skyscanner Low-Roller

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    It's the dominant property that gets to decide the upgrades to 7*. Mine was Paris Las Vegas.
     
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  4. Blueberries

    Blueberries Low-Roller

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    I'm sorry, I haven't seen your reply to my question. Again I'm not against you. There is another Vegas Board where an OP had a similar complaint around same time as you. I only read the first post but allegedly the person sold his room and show tickets. I'm still wondering if you had visitors staying in your room or using your players card. Just curious, wondering if casinos are watching more closely. This is something I would never do, but did you ? Again I'm not against anyone. Thanks!
     
  5. skyscanner

    skyscanner Low-Roller

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    Guys, let's do an experiment:go to your local CET casino and ask a host/Caesars Rewards what the requirements for 7* are. And post in here the replies you get.
     
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  6. pressitagain

    pressitagain High-Roller

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    I’m thinking that they (Paris) will make you sweat it out.....Keep nagging them!!!!
     
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  7. skyscanner

    skyscanner Low-Roller

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    No, if you sell your room, you are responsible for the dammages they may cause. You can go into legal trouble if something really bad happens, as you would be considered an enabling person. Not worth it. I pay market rates, so I wouldn't be able to offer any discounts to people. I haven't asked for tickets in months. 20$ profit from selling a free ticket for a low tier show is not worth the hassle. I've only used them when a friend came to town. As I've said, I have had no security incidents, otherwise I wouldn't have pursued it. This I did know.
     
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  8. alexm

    alexm Low-Roller

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    I am not sure there is necessarily bad publicity, most on this board at least or that I have read seem to agree that CET is more than justified in denying it. In fact it really seem to be only you that thinks CET is acting unreasonably. Here is the reason why I think no one actually cares (negativley) about what CET is doing here: If you are 7 stars you likely played enough to earn it. If you aren't, the far vast majority likely would never be so it really has no bearing. Now if the comp abuse and milking bonuses had made them deny him Diamond elite I think far more of us would be up in arms. But they denied him access to a program they have been very clear about being able to control access to. No harm no foul.
     
  9. alexm

    alexm Low-Roller

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    @skyscanner I think you have clearly gotten to the crux of your issue. Your limited time in AC may make you a quality player in their eyes. Even if you stayed for 30 nights, the level of play you did there was reasonable to expect an upgrade in status. I think most would agree with that. However, it seems you have no explained they are not the decision maker. Instead it's the place where you long history with them (70 nights) has proven to be incredibly unprofitable for them. Especially if the only thing they are looking at is your value in LV and not to AC. You would be talking about 70 nights of comps (resort fees and discounts and lounge access) with nearly no play. Remember an offer of 10 dollars off a buffet is still a comp and requires play to match. I am hopeful that once AC and LV get their facts organized you may be more likely to be covered. However, it wouldn't surprise me if the Paris VP talks the AC VP out of it, simply because even with all that play your are unprofitable. And the likelihood that you would play to the level to maintain 7 stars (which is what they want) is non-existent.
     
  10. skyscanner

    skyscanner Low-Roller

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    Losing thousands of dollars in the casino and paying the market rate for rooms that would have otherwise remained empty and generated no income is not "incredibly unprofitable". The comps are artificially inflated by the waived resort fees which have no basis in the first place, and even if they had, it is a benefit I earned because I had more than 25k TCs both last year and this year. Your claim that the possibility of me playing to 7* level is "non-existent" is baseless. I am capable of doing 5,000 TC days. I have already had 2 of these.
     
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  11. fasbman

    fasbman Low-Roller

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    When I was growing up, the best advice my mother ever gave me was, "Life's not fair, get used to it".

    Therefore, while you don't think it's fair, at the end of the day, CET's perception of your profitability is the only opinion that matter's.
     
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  12. sinnerman

    sinnerman High-Roller

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    This is extremely reasonable. CET sets up a clear goal of 150K TC's (with a small asterisk saying invitation only), they set up status bars and everything else that makes people think the invitation part is just a formality. There might be some liability there, even in spite of the T&C's.

    You keep coming back to this point that the room would be empty anyway, but that is simply NOT how a business evaluates a customer. CET thinks there room is worth $X (including the resort fee), if they give you the room for less than $X (i.e. resort fee comped) they expect you to make it up in gambling. Therefore, by any reasonable metric, you are an unprofitable customer (150K coin in with 100 nights of stay). Saying you might be a profitable in the future (i.e next year you might make ten 5K TC days while you made two this year) is also irrelevant to CET. Certainly, it is possible you will be a profitable customer in the future. However CET excepts you to make those 10 days before they give you the status, just like airlines except you to give them a bunch of money (though flights) BEFORE they give you the status.

    Nothing you did strikes me as 'comp abuse'. But my objection is simply to the word. If CET said they are not giving you 7* because you are unprofitable, that seems reasonable to me, as long as they start making 7* a clear invite only tier, as opposed to advertising the 150K goal everywhere.

    Your AC strategy is a good one. Since AC might see you as profitable, assuming you stayed way less nights there, you might be able to convince a host to upgrade you there. I am hoping you succeed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
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  13. notfromconcentrate

    notfromconcentrate High-rolling diner. Low-rolling gambler.

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    You can call it “artificial” all day long, but if that’s how they do business, it’s how they do business. I don’t agree with resort fees either, but that isn’t going to make them not apply when they’re incurred on a booking that I voluntarily made... nor is it going to change their calculation of the value of the comps you’ve received.

    It appears that your definition of “7* level” differs from CET’s. Since that’s their determination to make and not yours, it seems like a pointless thing to be arguing about.
     
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  14. vetsen

    vetsen Low-Roller

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    The thing that created this mess, which I don't think I've seen anyone metion yet, is the 5x tier promotion. Without that, it would be much more difficult to have what Caesars considers an "unworthly" player "qualify" under the 150k requirement.

    Caesars came up with a poorly thought out promotion which allowed someone to "game the system". Now they want to blame the player for participating in the promotion that they created.

    Over the past several years, Caesars has shifted to tier-based promotions because generally tier doesn't create a hard cost to them like reward credits, freeplay, and giveaways do. They got caught in this instance and should "pay up" in my opinion.
     
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  15. NickG

    NickG Low-Roller

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    I don’t see how increasing your status by using a 5x Tier Credit promotion can be thought of as “gaming the system”. The only purpose of tier credits is to increase your status, and thus the only purpose of Tier Credit multiplier is to attract customers hoping to increase their status more easily. OP was not “gaming the system”, he was participating in the promotion in the exact way it was intended.
     
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  16. dankyone

    dankyone VIP Whale

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    If he had come in for two days and played the 5x promo as he did, I believe he would have gotten Seven Stars no problem. His PRIOR history/issues presented a problem.
     
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  17. zignerlv

    zignerlv VIP Whale

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    This is a public corporation, unless you own a large percentage of stock (are an owner), your opinion on how you want to see Caesars Resorts run means next to nothing to them. Hey, I want to see full pay 9/6 JoB machines put in. I want VP to be 1 reward credit per $1 coin in! Should they make that change because of me? They aren't going to drop the invitation only aspect of 7* just because you don't like it. It is to protect them from having less profitable customers gaining their top level card. They have defined you as a less profitable customer. That's not up for vote by customers like us here on this board. They have NO obligation to justify their decision to you! None! They have already given you reasons, which is really more than they have to do!

    You continue to discuss non true management employees opinions of your situation, for instance, now quoting hosts. Hosts, marketing reps, Caesars Rewards slot club supervisors have nothing to do with approving or denying 7* applications, and quoting what you remember as their statements, as if it were gospel! It's MANAGEMENT that makes these calls not these people are talking to.

    "wait, there are also these extra factors we haven't told you about up to now"
    Actually they did already tell you. The 7* is by invitation only, yet you refuse to acknowledge this. It it were simply check these 3 boxes and you are in, then there would be no need for this clause. You continue to view that if you have no security issues or marker issues and get 150k you are in based on one employee who is not involved in making those decisions. That is not the case. That is your assumption. Had you posted 6 months ago, "are there any reasons I may not make 7* if I earn 150K, and listed your 100 days of play with no comps or free play offers, and if I had seen your post, I would have told right then and there that there is a significant chance you would be denied 7*.

    The idea you are going to "publicize what happened as much as possible" is another fruitless endeavor. As I said before, you are not the first to be denied 7*, and you won't be the last. Just because no one has posted on this board that this happened to them doesn't mean this hasn't happened before. It has! The Internet is FILLED with "my experience with this company was bad, so you should never go there" posts/blog entries etc. If people took these to heart, no one would go to any casino, as there isn't a place that hasn't had one of those reviews. So, adding your complaints to the pile is like spitting in the wind.

    You've stated your view of what happened, gotten 7 pages of comments, yet you still go on here. Maybe it gives you comfort, but complaining here, and getting agreement from some of the posters, even many of the posters, will do nothing for your situation. This is not a popular vote!

    Let me just say this, if you push enough with these Nevada disclosure demands, and you get the slightest bit aggressive with demands, they may very well ban you from their properties! Now, if they do, please don't come posting here and saying you didn't know that could happen.
     
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  18. sinnerman

    sinnerman High-Roller

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    This is a valid point. The simple fact is that TC's are worthless except for level. Therefore, when CET creates a 5X promotion, it is somewhat implicit that people are going to be using that to get to a level they didn't otherwise 'earn' (i.e. by getting to a level by gambling less". So for CET to turn around and then bitch that they didn't gamble enough is a little annoying. The solution is for CET, like MGM, to simply remove the 150K from all promotional materials and simply state invite only.
     
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  19. breanna61

    breanna61 Super Moderator

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    Everything that can be said has been said.
     
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