Car Buying

Did you see the recent JD POWER, Korean auto makers kicking azz!

 

The Koreans have come a long way in 30 years, both Hyundai and Kia have assembly plants in the U.S. and I think Kia is making engines over here. Here's a 1985 Excel.

 

Hi cap!

I didn't see the JFP report, but I gotta tell you - this is my second Hyundai Elantra. My first one I bought new in 2001 and kept for 12 years, my current one I bought new in 2013. It's a great line of cars.

 

Now is a good time to buy 2015's, dealers will be making room for the new models. Many buyers now do everything online and never go to the dealer until they pick up their car. I'll be in the market soon (hopefully my current car makes it through winter). No idea what to buy. My brother in law owns an auto repair shop, there are a couple of brands he tells me to stay away from because "they're junk".

 

I did this today. Got no replies IDK maybe next week or so... after all it will be the end of the month :evillaugh

I went to the banks and credit unions in my area and rates are crazy 3.5-6.5 and that is even without them knowing what a good credit score I have. This was just from walking in and asking them. There was one credit union who was willing to do 2.09 but that is for a 12 month loan! Unfortunately it seems I may have to wait on the dealer to see what they would offer.

 

I never got any replies to my emails, either. I think the email they use to send out quotes is not monitored for incoming emails. You need to find a salesperson's email.

 

The one guarantee in all of this is one person's experiences won't mirror another's experiences. As I've written often here on similar threads, we've had great luck using online resources. Gather the usual third-party suspects -- AAA, Carsdirect, credit union, whatever -- and specific dealers. We've never been ignored but as I wrote, different strokes.

I know you have your mind set but manufacturer-offered credit often is winner-winner. Overall, if negotiating a two-tier process isn't your cup of tea, going in with a certified check is the way to go, however.

 

I will try and keep this short (but it never is I should copy and paste this)

1. negotiate each part of the sale individually and NEVER open it back up (with rare exceptions explained later)

if you have a trade set the value of the trade and that is that do not start going back to the price of the trade further into the deal

if you have a down payment set the price of the down payment and do not open that back up

2. you cannot possibly know your monthly payments until you know how much the car is selling for less your trade and down payment

so after you set the trade and the down payment you negotiate the price of the new unit.......without opening back up the trade or the down payment

never fall for the "4 square" which is trade, down payment, sales price, monthly payment with the salesman jumping back and forth between each of them to "get you where you want to be" (which really means to get you where he has you bent over)

set each one and move on

3. only after the sales price of the new unit is set, less the trade value and less the down payment can you know the amount financed and only then with the interest rate and number of months can you get a monthly payment

4. always have outside financing set up

5. never let the dealer know you have outside financing until you are in the finance office

6. be able to calculate very accurately what your monthly payments will be with YOUR PRE APPROVED FINANCING and the number of months and the amount financed

7, always give the dealer a chance to beat your financing they can as explained above when factory (it was hyundia mentioned above) wants that loan.....the better your credit the more likely that is to happen

8. TT&L....Tax Title and License......Tax is easy it is the sales tax in the area where you will title the car and in most places your trade value is not a part of the sales tax because you paid that tax when you bought the car

title is the fee the dealer wants to charge you for preparing the documents to get your title and plates and in some states this is a set amount by law other places it is open to the dealer......generally it should be somewhere around $100 to $200

License is the cost you would pay for your plates or registrations ticker every year when you renew your registration sticker or license plates and again that is easy to find info from your local taxing authority/DMV/tax assessor never pay extra for that

"dealer prep, documents fee, make ready, hand job fee".....= KISS MY ASS that either goes in the sales price or they can KMA

9. games you have to watch out for

A. the above "fees"....."every dealer charges this" or "we charge this to everyone"......kiss my ass!

B. slipping the rebate..... an advertised known factory rebate can be "assigned to buyer"....."assigned to dealer"......"assigned as down payment" (I think that third one is correct it has been MANY MOONS since I tortured myself selling cars)

assigned to buyer or assigned as down payment you generally will pay federal income taxes on and that is generally a "roach" move to take that as cash for yourself or to have as a down payment (down payment usually to gain "equity" in the car so a roach with horrible credit can get a loan at all)

assigned to dealer you do not pay taxes

here is how it SHOULD work (these are not real numbers, but close enough for government work)

you are buying a $32,000 STICKER PRICE Ford Focus

it has an "invoice price" of $29,000

there is a dealer hold back of $700 dollars and a marketing hold back of $700 dollars

invoice price is the price that the dealer cuts a check to the factory for the price of that car

dealer hold back is money that the dealer will get a portion of back from the factory for meeting sales goals for that type of unit

advertising hold back pays for the "socal area Ford dealers" advertising that list all the socal area Ford dealers in the ad and for sponsoring the Rams or Chargers ect rarely will you ever get into any of that

sometimes you can get into "dealer hold back"

so your Ford Focus has a sticker of $32,000 (who cares) and an invoice price of $29,000 and a dealer hold back of $700 AND AN ADVERTISED REBATE of $1,500

in the "way back" when I sold on a car like a Focus generally getting into the dealer hold back a few hundred was a "good deal"

today when invoices are not as freely shown anymore who knows you will have to do your homework to see what others are paying on average

but back to "slipping the rebate"

in the past say you were $29,000 invoice and you negotiated $500 into dealer hold back for a sales price of $28,500....then there is the advertised rebate of $1,500.....the salesman would have you sign and initial some forms and then at the very end out comes the rebate form with "assign to dealer" already checked and you initial that and "off you go" (to getting screwed).....because if you are "weak" and ask "what about the rebate" the salesman at that will say "well yea that is how I was able to get a $32,000 car down to $28,500

but back then what you REALLY should have gotten was $29,500 and then a "good deal" of $500 into hold back below invoice for $28,500 AND the rebate for a finale sales price of $27,000.....but if you were "weak" and got "slipped the rebate" that salesman just went from making a "mini" (lowest commission on any car sold) to making a % of $1,000 because you made a % of whatever the car sold for over invoice

and since your deal was $500 under invoice and you were "slipped" $1,500 well now you just paid $1,000 over invoice in reality because the dealer will get that $1,500 from the factory..... and what should have been a really good deal of $27,000 is not a not great deal of $28,500 and the dealer keeping the rebate

where I worked we actually were not really encouraged to slip the rebate, but it happens AT ALL DEALERS sometimes

again you need to actually see "what is a good deal" these days on the car you are looking at and most of the time the sites that state what is a good deal discuss the rebate and if the rebate was included......but again if everyone else is paying around $29,000 for car X BEFORE the rebate do not allow yourself to get to $29,000 and then the salesman says "sign here" and it is you giving away the rebate without it coming off that $29,000.... and again to make clear when you look at "what everyone else is paying" make sure to view with or without the rebate and what the rebate was VS what the rebate is currently and do the "maths"

C. finance games.....here is where the "never open it back up" can come into play and where you can get screwed

so you are FINANCING $27,000 for your Ford Focus and you have no trade and no down payment

you have 3% from your preapproved lender.....they come back with 2% from their lender......well really they are going to more than likely come back with a monthly payment that is less than yours (of course make sure it is the same amount of months ect) and not with an interest rate......you will see the interest rate eventually, but really if the best you can get is 3% preapproved and the dealer is offering monthly payments for the same number of months at a lower monthly payment well shit who would not take that and really who cares if it is 2.9% of 2.4% or 2% (other than the fact that you might possibly actually qualify for 2% and they are hooking you up at 2.4%, but there is really no way to know that unless you have gotten all the way to the finance office (shit excuse me "business office") and been told by another dealer for the same brand that you qualify for 2%..... and if 3% is the best you can get on your own well hell how will you know you can do better than 2.4% if that is what is offered at the dealer

BUT HERE IS WHERE TO BE CAREFUL

sometimes the finance guy (shit sorry business guy) will say "to get you this better interest rate we need some small down payment" which can make sense because more equity = less risk to the lender

BUT lets say you are financing for 60 months and the guy says he needs $600 dollars down payment.....that is $10 dollars per month over the life of a 60 month loan and that is just straight math no interest ect included

so right off the bat your payments should be $10 dollars a month lower than what they would be with your 3% preapproved financing because you arePAYING $600 dollars less and really they should go down slightly more than that because again you are FINANCING less as well

so if the finance guy (screw it lets call him what he is) comes back with payments that are $5 dollars a month less than your payments with 3% preapproved you are getting screwed because $5 per month X 60 months = $300 dollars....WHEN YOU JUST HANDED THEM $600 damn dollars!

so you basically just gave the finance guy a "back of house" $300 dollar profit on that car if you agree to that

because again you are now FINANCING $600 less and the payments should go down $10 per month just on straight money with no interest included much less a reduction of any interest rate %

so again do the math....some will say "well it is $5 per month blah blah".....well hell then why did you sit there and dicker over $500 on the price of the car why not just pay that as well and then give a bit more down payment in the finance office as well and then get a monthly payment padded by another $5 dollars as well and end up paying $1,200 more for the car over the life of the loan.....hell it is only $20 per month!!!

the above is really where people get broken down and abused and give up and give in......the above is where those that get a good deal hold that deal to the very end

10, how IMO to get a best deal

end of month, end of model year that is pretty much "standard" the dealer wants those hold back dollars and sometimes if they can move one or two more units of the type you are buying to get 30% more hold back on ALL the units of that type they have sold in the allotted time period well guess who can get the best deal....the two buyers that are buying those last 2 units at the very last minute of that allotted period of time

the salesman that is "hot" also will often get allowed better deals....he has sold 10 cars.....the managers love him this month.....he might get a small bonus for hitting 12 or 15 cars ans same with his immediate floor managers so he will be allowed a "mini" to get to that magic 12-15 units a month

the guy that sold 5 cars that month will have a manager holding out for every last dollar....it seems counter productive and it probably is.....but it is selling cars so it is what it is

look for the guy with "sales awards" and the guy with an actual cubical that looks like his instead of the guy that takes any open cubical

financing = profit center these days cash = no longer talks......so even if paying cash always negotiate like you are going to finance.....AGAIN.....ALWAYS negotiate the PRICE OF THE UNIT and then when they bring up monthly payments do not "initial" anything (not really a binding document, but they will pretend it is) and just say well I will see what the business office says they come to but I am HAPPY WITH THIS SALES PRICE

or just have them "initial" the sales price (always fun to use their games on them) and the say "well I might just pay cash if the payments are not where I like them" and be prepared for them to say "well this was the financed price" at which point you say "see ya!" and watch them squirm

IMO busy weekends can be hit or miss....of they are moving units and the store is crowded they might be less likely to take the extra time to dicker with you and they might blow you out over $50 dollars......or if it is buys and slaes are a little slow they might dicker over $50 to have others on the lot see a "new car delivery" and spread new car fever

if they do not want to dicker you can always walk new cars are a commodity for all but the most rare models they will make more

cars that have been on the lot longer they want to move

that is when "floor plan" kicks in after (30 or 45 days I can't remember) and they start paying interest to their floor plan lender (used to be he factory now probably a big bank) ......so if you can decipher the codes on the car as to how long it has been on the lot that helps

dealers that sell more of the car you are looking at will generally deal more on that model.....because of course they are getting more hold back.....unless of curse you find a dealer that sells only a few of those models and is sitting on one they are having a hard time selling and that was part of their factory allotment and they want to get it gone

if you have just so so credit, but your job is better now, your credit has been improving, your debt to income ratio has improved, you have a decent down payment and a trade that actually brings equity (instead of being upside down) sometimes going to a dealer in a nicer area can get you a better interest rate

again do your homework.....but "what it is" is that the dealer has an allotment for "bad loans" so a dealer that has a ton of good loans can often get a "bad loan" or more so a "not as great loan" packaged in with all their better "paper" and get you bought at a better rate because it all averages out

places that finance every roach under the sun well hell they just get all of them with with high interest rates....and this goes for new car dealers as well not just used

aging this is mostly for decent and improving customers mainly....if you are a roach you get roach rates period

but it is worth a try if a few bucks a month is meaningful to you or if you KNOW (really KNOW) that your credit is improving and you have a good down payment and trade and you are being treated like a roach at the roach dealers

 

True Car is awesome

 

And here is the post I was referring to. Thnx someone!

 

Recently bought a new Rogue (very happy with it btw) I looked at all the usual suspects in that class, narrowed it down to three models and asked the sales people (all local) to sharpen their pencils.

I called up one of these car broker companies. I was told for $250 they could knock my best price down by @ $2,000. I cautiously passed over the $250 and what do you know, another $2,000 off my best price at the dealer next town over (20 minutes). I just love shopping for cars.....

 

I didn't read the whole thread...but it did help a little...I did all of my research online, and emailed every dealership within 250 miles, telling them I wanted to pay NO MORE than a certain price...finally ONE was able to get under it...drove up the next day and bought it.
You have to decide what you want:
A.) Certain Price
B.) Certain Monthly Payment
C.) Certain Interest Rate

For us, it was a certain price; because we knew @ 60 months, what the payment range would be, and we were comfortable with it...

EDIT: Haha, we actually bought a Hyundai Elantra.

 

This is exactly what one of my good friends did. Except the radius was just STL metro. My g/f's parents also have an Elantra, decent car...except in snow (snow builds up in wheel well). Fortunately, you shouldn't have that problem.

Sorry gonna miss you by a few days! Couldn't pass up the prices we got.

 

Hijack: Sall good, with the new job, weekends became that much more valuable...

 

I'd not set a threshold, which is what you are doing with "NO MORE than." Agree we all have the magical nut, but it's also important to key on what that long-term plan does to the overall cost of the vehicle.

Congrats on getting this nailed down finally.

I kinda have an itch to shop, but the wise one is being smart. We just paid our 60th 0% payment on her car and the Honda was paid off the day we got it. It's hard to justify as much fun as a new ride would be.

 

Wow! Just to say Thank You for all this advice. Going to have to reread it again before my next move. I did go drive a RAV4 just to be sure I want the CR-V. I think the salesguy saw in something in me that it wasn't my favorite. He kept asking me was this the one for me. I think because a lot of the question I asked re: the features pertained to the CRV. But I got some vacation time at the end of this week so hope to pay someone a visit.

 

The first key point is to have 3-4 dealerships in mind and do not hesitate to walk.
Second, do as much research via the Internet.
Contact dealer web sties to view Inventory.
Third, always ask for the "out the door" price, because Dealer A maybe cheaper then Dealer B but Dealer A may have extra BS add ons.

Keep in mind that an offer may not be accepted at the beginning of the month but then will be at the end of the month.
We recently purchased a vehicle with a $42K MSRP,. After tax and all the dealer charges and stuff it was about $48K out the door.
We offered them $40k "out the door" and they jumped on it.
Car dealership have more room than you think to negotiate.

 

After you have figured out what CR-V options you want, a dealer that has one, a price that it should sell for out the door then do not go to the dealer. Send them an e-mail saying you want this car for this price otd. No phone number until it's a yes. Then go in and do the deal. My last 2 cars were done like that and my next one will also be done like that.

 

Sounds like you got a good deal. I think I would be more comfortable from the "out the door" price too. Will definitely look into that!

 

This is the one thing the dealership I bought my current car from was hesitant to do, that was put in writing a bottom-line no plus-this-plus-that price.

I had already talked to the Credit Union and they said no problem, so I didn't intend to use their dealer financing.

Two things I did. I took the price to a competitor. They did not have the same exact vehicle on the lot so they said "they could probably meet it but they would have to find it and ship it in." Then I took it to the Credit Union and figured out the monthly payment.

Then, surprise-surprise, the dealer offered better terms than the Credit Union. I phoned the CU lady and she told me to take the dealer offer! LOL.

The one thing they tried to do is sneak in "credit life insurance", which I do not need, and I caught it. I think they thought they could bury it in the lower payment but it was very obvious.

Other than that I was happy. I was looking at three models (Hyundai, Subaru, Mitsubishi) and the same management ran all three dealerships so the sales guy drove me between the lots and let me test drive all of them and do a real comparison.

One other whammy. This dealer is not in my state of residence, so I had to pay the sales tax at time of registration at DMV. OUCH!