Requesting Your Theo and Average Bet

In Natedog's trip report he is constantly asking his host for his theo, average bet size, and length of time played. Now, Natedog is a whale and is giving the casinos a lot of action, so I assume that no unreasonable request would be refused.

My question is can the average player request this too? Even the small time green or black chip players? Who do you ask if you don't have a host at that particular property? How many of you on this board request this information consistently when you play table games? Thanks!

 

If you are playing enough to be rated, it's usually a good rule of thumb to ask the pit what they had your rated at and how long you played when you finish your session. It's easier to get the rate adjusted while you're standing there at the end of the session than to complain about be rated low later to them.

Nate is the only one I've seen ask for his theo, but I would suppose they could give you that as well.

 

For most players the average bet is enough and they can figure out what their likely theo would be.

If you have a host, the host will usually gladly tell you the theo if it matters to you.

I ask for theo because I'm on a program that has specific theo targets...12,500 25,000, 50,000, 75,000 , 125,000 , 250,000. So I can decide if I want to quit after I hit a target...that's why you don't see me playing after I hit 250,000 usually.

Now for domestic players with a host, theo is also helpful for determining how much comps you can spend.

 

The best way to get to see your theo (if you don't have a close relationship with your host) is to use a little social engineering and be nosey. Meet up with your host at the host office (not at the players club, unless you can read upside down). Ask enough questions so the host finds it easier just to show you their screen rather than continue to explain things in layman's terms. If you're at the players club, you can't go behind the desk, but in the host office its not as hard. Some questions to ask:
- What kind of comps can I expect to get if I play like this next trip?
- How much did I win/lose? Wow! that much? How much should I have expected to win/lose?
- Do different games give me more comps? How do I know?

Some questions to avoid since you normally get stonewalled (again, unless you have a close relationship with the host):
- What's my theo?
- What is my total comp dollars available to me?
- How much do I need to play to get my charges comped off for this trip?

 

Are these theo-based programs a tiered direct % rebate of losses, as opposed to comps-related ? Are these per-trip levels or per-day levels ?

 

They are per trip levels.

You get different perks at each level. Things like airfare reimbursement, access to the private jet, extra promo chips maybe. I'm not sure on a %rebate increase though.


I've assumed some of these can be received by domestic players as well. Access to the private jet for example(granted it doesn't go many places).

 

Just take your average bet multiplied by number of hours to get a rough estimate of your theo for the day. I would be careful asking hosts, at certain properties you will get a note in your account if you are asking for your theo or ADT. Some hosts will give up this information, but others do not like these kind of questions. I would go with more general questions like "how's my play? can you be as specific as possible?". If you play VP, there's a lot of value to knowing what a machine is set at. You're a lot more likely to get info from the host that is coded to you, especially if you frame it as "I want to have good numbers this trip, is that machine I was playing doing that?" As far as discretionary (comp) balance goes, it varies from property to property and card tier, but I think you can safely expect 10-20% of your actual loss/theo loss (whichever is greater) as a comp. I would definitely not ask a host for your theo straight out if you're doing something like playing low edge VP and doing well after promotions and mailers, a bad note or two and a history of wins can be enough to get you put on the no-mail list.

 

Wouldn't that be one calculation short? As Ave. Bet x Hours played = Action given. That times House Advantage should be what gives you the Theoretical loss, and 40% of that (or what ever its adjusted to now) is your comp balance.


Of course all of that is just me spitballing based off what I have read here as I am a quarter VP player and $10-15 craps plus odds player.

 

Craps is where the largest comp discrepancy arises, since all the different bets (esp the high HA ones in the middle) have different odds, and 1 single pit boss has to track a full table of up to a dozen people, the numbers he jot down would be very coarse.

Baccarat, esp the high limit room, is *the* place where your comps are very close to your actual coin-in. The rate you by the shoe (so no slow playing to earn comps), and they ding you if you frequently no bet / free hand.