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Table Games Blackjack Surrender Option

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by SW, May 19, 2014.

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  1. SW

    SW Well-Known Member

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    1. Do you use the surrender option if available?

    I did use it a few times on my last trip to Las Vegas at the Monte Carlo. It generally caused a flurry of questions from the other players at the time ($10 min table).​

    2. Do you believe using it causes increased attention from the casino in your play?

    When asking a dealer at a local casino if the option was available, the dealer response was “What’s that?” The pit boss immediately came over and stated that option had not been available at this casino for a few years.

    In Vegas, I don’t believe the pit took note since I was only playing $10/hand.​
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2014
  2. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    1. Yes.

    2. Initially? Perhaps. After a few times? No.
     
    Finally have the room booked! Look for me Feb 21-23
  3. ams722

    ams722 Side Bet Shunner

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    I use it whenever the book calls for it.

    In Vegas, I don't gamble at casinos that don't have the option to surrender (for shoe games, not talking about DD).

    It's never gotten any attention from the pit boss, and I do it all the time.

    One time at Monte Carlo, the dealer was like, "Surrender? I don't think we have that here." I was like, "Yeah, you do." He had to call the pit boss who showed him what to do. He told me it was his 2nd day and they didn't have it in the casino he dealt at previously (somewhere in the midwest).
     
  4. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    1. Yes. It's the best possible play in some situations and I like to make the best possible play

    2. Don't know and don't care. Are we talking about attention from other players or the casino? Every now and then a dealer or player (or me) will crack a joke about using surrender at the Paris casino, but that's about all the attention I can recall.
     
  5. SW

    SW Well-Known Member

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    I'm more interested in casino attention. I'll edit my original post to avoid confusion. :beer:
     
  6. aaronw915

    aaronw915 Low-Roller

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    1. Yes. Used it at Monte Carlo and Aria the last trip and it probably saved me over $500 in busts.
    2. I had to explain it to a few players but the dealers/pit bosses didn't seem fazed by it.
     
  7. fenway68

    fenway68 High-Roller

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    I use it, as a previous poster said, when the book calls for it as the best play...

    I get looks from other players-(I don't care, go ahead stare!)

    I have gotten looks from dealers, who try to con me off of doing it, they delay, they hesitate, as if trying to say "are you suuuurrreee you want to do that??" almost as if the casino (of course they don't) doesnt want you to surrender...pit bosses never pay me any mind
     
  8. Big Tip

    Big Tip VIP Whale

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    I will always seek out a surrender available table. It does not add a huge advantage by itself, but add it to other good rules, and it adds up.

    I think dealers always say it's a bad thing to do because they don't like to do it. It gets them out of their rhythm of paying/collecting etc.

    It is undeniably good for we players. I usually can end arguments about it by saying that if it was bad for us, every casino would offer it, just like every casino offers the bad play of insurance.

    I don't know why every casino does not offer it. I say that because I have seen so many people use it in the wrong situations.
     
  9. gradytripp

    gradytripp Low-Roller

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    I always use it, when the book calls for it. It saves you money.

    A dealer at Ellis Island taught me the hand signal for surrender (drawing a line behind the card, or something like that). However, if a dealer is moving too quickly, they can think you want to hit. So I always say "surrender," get the dealer's eye, and then do the hand signal. Although most of the time they don't seem to care about the hand signal in this particular case.
     
  10. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

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    I use surrender all the time.

    It's funny how players and dealers try to get you to just take a hit instead of surrender, but it's the play available sometimes and you shouldn't give away your money. I just joke back that I'm French and start singing the Corey Hart song "Never surrender."
     
  11. Big Tip

    Big Tip VIP Whale

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    Better to say, "I'm French, so of course I surrender."


    Sorry.
    Had to.

    :peace:
     
  12. JethroChoicebro

    JethroChoicebro Tourist

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    We'll played sir! Lol
    :nworthy:
     
  13. jdvegas

    jdvegas VIP Whale

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    Yes, always use surrender. Go to Wizard of Odds and play with the rules. Based on the rules I played, the difference with and without surrender is .07% (.0007). Sound small? It's not: it's giving the house an additional 25% increase in their house advantage, from .28% to .35%.

    Basic strategy matters!

    The fact that so few people use it, it always gets a reaction the first time you use it.

    There is an official hand signal for surrender: kind of like doing a "slit your throat" motion with your finger, but of course with your finger on the felt behind your bet. The problem is that because dealers are not used to it, they will sometimes think you are asking for a hit as you bring your finger to the felt. This creates a dealer error with you getting to decide to take the hit or still surrender after seeing the card. For this reason, I have actually been asked to NOT use the hand signal until I first verbally say "surrender" and have the dealer acknowledge. This has been on floor when playing with friends at lower limits. In the high limit area, I made up my own surrender hand signal this weekend in my drunkenness. Seriously: I would do the "jazz hands" thing and yell surrender!!

    In fact, now that I recall...There is a Bloomberg documentary from the last year about a big gambler named Don Johnson. He took the casinos for millions. One of his rules was he could use the official surrender hand signal and not have to say surrender out loud. He specifically asked for this rule knowing the dealer would make some errors and he would have the scenario I describe above.
     
  14. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    For the most part the only comments I've heard from other players was positive, things like "right move" or whatever. A lot of times people just forget surrender is offered so it reminds them. The only comment that annoys me a little is sometimes when I surrender some loudmouth shakes his head and says something like "No way, I came here to gamble!". It sounds like the type of thing that would be followed with, "'Murica! Fuck Yeah!!"
     
  15. 4Eyes

    4Eyes Low-Roller

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    To clarify for others here, "behind your bet" means the side closer to the dealer.

    A few years ago I sat down at a Bellagio BJ table and on the very first hand I received a 16 vs. a dealer 10. I surrendered with the hand signal. The dealer, following procedure, announced "surrender" to the floorman and scooped up half of my bet. The one other player at the table asked me what happened. After explaining the surrender rule to him, he asked me why anyone would want to do that. I dead-panned, "because I learned that if I surrender every hand I can play twice as long." The dealer and floorman quietly chuckled at the confused look on the player's face.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2014
  16. grel

    grel Tourist

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    I never really surrendered before (though you guys are convincing me to try it). But I'm curious... what happens if you surrender with an odd bet. say I am betting $5 and surrender... do I get $2.50 back or does it round off (in which case probably would be less useful)
     
  17. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

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    This is wrong. Behind your bet means the side closest to you. The reason you're doing the hand signal is for the cameras, not for the dealer. He/she can hear you just fine when you tell them surrender. They need the signal for the cameras.

    If you reach over your bet to make a slit signal on the felt between your bet and the dealer, that's going to give quite a rise to security that you're attempting to manipulate your bet.

    In fact, at no time will the casino allow a blackjack player to reach past their betting space.
     
  18. NickyDim

    NickyDim VIP Whale

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    You'd get 2.50 back. If there is a $5 min, you'd see pink chips(2.50) or .50 silver in the tray.

    And I use it when available.
     
  19. undathesea

    undathesea Grandissimo

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    Ya know... I've only seen pink chips in the poker room. I've never seen them on the casino floor. I wish they were on the casino floor. I'd rather collect those than the dollar chips.
     
  20. jdvegas

    jdvegas VIP Whale

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    correct - side closest to you.
     
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