Slots Best strategy for machines with different denominations

Is it better to play big fish in a small pond, or small pond in a big fish. For example, a machine I like has two versions- one where the minimum bet is $1 up to $10. The other the minimum bet is $10, the jackpots are much higher on the $10 min machine. If I want to bet $10 a spin, will my payouts be better on the machine where $10 is the max bet, versus the machine where the $10 bet is the min?

 

There seems to be ongoing discussions around the hold on multi-denom machines. Are they the same for all denom, or does it vary.

Personally, with less a percent difference over the life of a machine, I do not think it matters what it does. Just my two cents.

LOTS of figures here> https://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=18097

 

Kevin Sweet, formerly of Cosmo, currently at Rio, came here once and showed how he had a multi-denom machine with 4 available denoms set with one payback % for the lower two denoms and a better one for the higher two.

So that demonstrated that it's possible to set different paybacks for different denoms on a multi-denom machine.

He did not imply, but I inferred that most casinos do not bother doing this.

It's not as common these days, but it used to be common that you could find separate cabinets with the exact same game with overlapping denoms.

Like:
One Cleo II (20 lines) at .01 / .05 / .10 / .25, and another at
.25 / .50 / $1

Or a Double Diamond (single line) at $1 / $2 / $5 / $10
and another at $5 / $10 / $25 / $50

And say I want to play $5/spin..

I will ALWAYS play the second machine in each example. Because I think the first Cleo II machine pays at the penny payback % no matter what denom and the first Double Diamond pays at the $1 denom % no matter what denom you play.

If the casino actually does pay the same % for both Cleo machines when you play at .25, or the same for both Double Diamond machines when you play $5, I'm not giving up anything by using my method.

I have played a few multi-denom machines at Aria and found they were giving the same number of TCs for the same amount of coin-in regardless of denom played. That's not 100% proof that the machines are actually paying out at the same % for each denom, but it doesn't provide any evidence to the contrary.

So in your example, I would play the machine with the $10 min.

ETA: This also assumes that the "jackpots" you refer to are proportional to the denom. You said the jackpots are "much higher" on the $10 minimum machine. If the jackpot at $1 is 1,000 and the jackpot at $10 is 10,000, then that's proportional and I would play the $10 min machine.

But if the $10 min jackpot is 50,000 or 100,000, then a lot more of that machine's payback is tied up in hitting the jackpot compared to the $1 machine, I actually would go the opposite way in that case.

 

Thank you. Machine 1 (the smaller denom machine) has a grand jackpot starting at 10,000 and a major starting at 500. Machine 2 higher denom grand jackpot starts at 100,000 and major starts at 5,000. These are the same regardless of denom played or bet size, so an $0.88 bet on the smaller machine could win the 500 jackpot.

 

I don't play progressives, but the progressive numbers you mentioned seem to be proportional to the original bet sizes you mentioned. If the lowest denom on Machine 1 is $1 and the lowest denom on Machine 2 is $10, then if you want to play $10/spin, I'd play Machine 2.

One thing I would look at though is, are the progressives for Machine 2 going up faster than the ones for Machine 1. I'd think they should be. Just like the starting point for the progressives should be proportional, so should the rate at which they increase. Not 100% sure about that, because I don't play them.

But then you threw in "$0.88 bet." That's not a denom, so now I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Any of those "88" machines are going to be penny denoms to my knowledge, but I don't play them.

 

Volatility can come into play also. Like on the lightning link games. 1 Cent mini, is $10, 10 cent mini is $100. If you are betting $5.00 of pennies or $5.00 of dimes, obviously the mini can not come up as much because it is 20X your bet in dimes vs 2X your bet in pennies.

 

Just a reminder, even if there were evidence one way or another, most people won't play enough to actually see a difference.
Don't want someone to read this thread and end up playing at a higher level then they should (or can) because they read the odds were better.

With that said, if I play a penny machine with a $5/spin bet that also has a 5 cent machine (less lines) that will also cost $5/spin, I usually play the 5 cent machine.

 

This applies to a very narrow range of bets but if you have the option between 2 different multi denoms, where one has the typical penny thru dime denoms and the other has dimes and higher.. I'd go with the latter option if you are betting high enough (eg $5+).

 

Make sure to read the rules. Some of these machines (thinking of the various "Link" games for instance) do increase your chances of the progressives depending on $ per line.

So betting max bet @ say $2.50 on pennies increases chances of progressive versus the same bet amount on nickle denom. This lowers your volatility a bit. Just something to take into account regardless as to the payout.

 

Resurrecting an old thread rather than creating a new one…

A couple of weeks ago, I was playing Huff and Puff (the original one) at RW and a few other places, and I noticed the Minor/Major payouts would increase with denomination, but would not increase with higher bets at a given denomination.

So for example - at 1c denomination, the minor/major were $10/$50. This was constant whether you were playing, say, 75 credits ($0.75) per spin, or 150 credits ($1.50) per spin. And I think I read something in the info screen that said higher credits per spin increased the chance of the larger bonus payouts.

Switching to 2c denomination, the minor/major were higher (I think $20/$100?), and 75 credits per spin would be $1.50.

So given two options - $1.50 per spin, at either 1c or 2c denomination, how would you choose between those?

 

1c denom only because it's min bet at 2c.
From my own personal illogical biased experience, I have better luck anywhere above min bet.. ideally mid level bet or higher. (for 1c/2c denom)
For 5c/10c+, min bet is fine.

 

From what I understand….which VERY WELL may be incorrect…

A $1 machine playing 10 credits has a WORSE payback % than playing $10 machine 1 credit….because generally speaking, higher denoms have higher payback %’s….

BUT…if playing ONE credit vs MAX credits makes you ineligible for certain bonuses…it may very well be WORSE to play $10, one credit. A decent little chunk of theoretical payback %’s of slots is the large jackpots.

Maybe I’m right or wrong. But that’s what I’ve always been lead to believe.

 

Hopefully others on this thread/forum will correct me as needed. But if I understand it correctly...the odds for various bets on a specific denom would be the same. For those games where rules state the bonus is more frequent at higher bet amounts, that would increase the variance in order to pay for the bonus.

So a mid level bet @ $1.50 spin for 1c would be higher variance than same bet amount on 2c where it's a low level bet. That said, the higher the denom generally the better the odds...although don't think it's by much.

With that in mind, it wouldn't be which is "better" per se. More, what gameplay experience you would desire (over the long term, a per-session experience will vary as these are high variance games). This wouldn't necessarily apply to a progressive, where I assume the percentage going to that would be constant regardless of bet.

 

A client of mine works for one of the major slot suppliers and she sets the tables. She mentioned to me that her machines all have a bigger payback at higher denominations on multi denomination games. Can’t say for all but, that is a close to the horses mouth one can get.