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Wynn and Grazie Rewards - Coin-in/Theo?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by NickyJ, Apr 13, 2021.

  1. NickyJ

    NickyJ Low-Roller

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    Looking for help from the math experts. Heading back to Vegas and playing at Wynncore and V/P for the first time since they've both implemented new loyalty programs. I'm currently Wynn Platinum and Grazie Elite. I play slots.

    What's the easiest way to calculate my trip coin-in and/or theo (based on 10% hold) with the new programs?

    Thanks!
     
  2. DaiLun

    DaiLun R.C., L.C., and A.A.N.G.

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    @JulianC has done exhaustive research on both those programs. Search and you will find . . .
     
    In search of a retirement spot. On my way to Elko, NV through Reno.
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  3. Elf70

    Elf70 High-Roller

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    I stayed at Wynn a few weeks ago. I tried to keep track of tier credits earned versus coin in. When I remembered to look I was getting around 1 point for every $4 coin in. Unfortunately my sample size is very small as I usually forgot to track it when I changed slots. I did not find anything on the Wynn app that showed coin in. I ended up emailing my host for the actual number. Based on my total coin in and tier credits earned the formula was 1 tier credit for each $4.04 of coin in. I think this potentially could vary greatly based on the slots you play and the hold of each slot. Unfortunately my host does not known me well enough yet to be comfortable giving me my actual theo. So that calculation is still a mystery to me.
     
  4. NickyJ

    NickyJ Low-Roller

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    Thanks @DaiLun and @Elf70!

    @DaiLun - I did search for info, but was hoping that someone knowledgeable would be kind enough to share the "Cliff Notes" with me so I wouldn't have to read the whole book! :)
     
  5. JulianC

    JulianC Amateur

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    I won't even bother attempting to explain too much how to derive or estimate coin-in with these two programs (especially Grazie), since theo is the more valuable number and both programs provide you with enough data to accurately figure it out. It is up to you to track your starting and ending numbers.

    With Wynn, there are two ways to calculate theo. (This information applies to Vegas. The calculations are different for Boston.)
    • divide the number of tier credits earned by 2.333333333333333333333333333
    • multiply the amount of comp dollars earned by 20 [this is the most accurate method, but you must also track and account for your spending of comp dollars]
    You might be a bit confused about why you are getting approximately 1 point (not to be confused with tier credits or comp dollars) for every $4 of slot coin-in. (I am just going to take the liberty of presuming that you are not referring to video poker coin-in.) Remember that the Platinum tier of Wynn Rewards gives you a 20% bonus on points earned from machine play (slots and VP; with Wynn in Vegas, one does not earn points from ETG play) -- and the bonus is immediately applied visibly on the machine in real-time (unlike with Mlife, where the point and Express Comp bonuses are applied only after you pull the card out). Thus, for slot coin-in, you get 1.2 points (worth $0.012 of free play) for every $5 of coin-in, or 1 point for every $4.16666666667 of coin-in.

    At 1 TC for every $4.04 of slot coin-in (presuming that this number is not derived from the post-bonus number of points earned), the average hold of all the slots you played at Wynn would have been about 10.6% -- which suggests to me that you played a good amount of Buffalo Gold (Collection, not Revolution; the hold is way higher on Revolution) and/or Dragon Link.

    Please let me know if I was correct about my guess about which slots you played. (Buffalo Gold Collection is right at 10.6 percent.) The slot holds do indeed vary.

    Mystery solved -- and when you ask, all you would be doing is confirming that your number matches theirs.

    Venetian (Grazie) is way more transparent. However, unlike Wynn, you can also earn tier progression through resort and hotel room spend -- though not nearly as much as before the program changed in late 2020. Also, unlike the previous Grazie program, the point-earning rate is the same across all tiers; it's the redemption value that differs between tiers. Thus, you would need to even more carefully track the amount of tier points earned. However, to derive theo, it is even easier to just track the amount of reward points earned. If you only play slots (not yet officially sure how this would apply to video poker or electronic table games), simply divide the number of reward points earned by 4 to see how much theo you generated. Just be sure to account for any reward points you might have redeemed during your trip.

    With both programs, you don't even need to estimate machine hold to know (not guess, but know) your trip theo.
     
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  6. NickyJ

    NickyJ Low-Roller

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    Thanks @JulianC!! Helpful information.

    A few years ago I got in the habit of taking a picture of my account before my first spin of a trip. I typically let any points/slot reward accumulate until the end of a trip and take another picture before redeeming them, and then again at the end of a trip.

    I assume any freecredit/freeplay does not earn points with either program? Jogging my memory, I thought freeplay did earn points with Grazie at some point in the past, but assume they eliminated that quirk with any program updates.
     
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  7. JulianC

    JulianC Amateur

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    This is where it is extremely important to know the difference between points redeemable for something (e.g. free play), points toward tier progression, and comp dollars one can use for resort spend. At Venetian, you get no additional points of any kind when using free play. At Wynn, you do not earn points when playing free play (FREECREDIT), but you do accumulate tier credits and comp dollars.
     
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  8. Elf70

    Elf70 High-Roller

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  9. Cageet

    Cageet Low-Roller

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    So it sounds like:
    • $3,000 theo to maintain Platinum at Wynn every year (ends Dec 31)
    • $2,500 theo to maintain Elite at V/P every year (ends Feb 28)

    I'm actually attempting to do that. Need another trip to make it happen. We'll see how it goes.
     
    tier chasing and slot mashing
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  10. NickyJ

    NickyJ Low-Roller

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    I'm curious why V/P picked March 1 as the start of their earnings period? To me, it would be easier to remember if the tier points matched the earnings period for Grazie Gifts Points, if you weren't just sticking with a calendar year earnings period.
     
  11. JulianC

    JulianC Amateur

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    I'm sure it was a very strategic decision that encourages at least one more trip between the end of Grazie Gifts and the end of February. In between those two points on the calendar...
    • the rodeo
    • Christmas
    • NYE
    • Super Bowl
    • Valentine's Day
    For the drive-market visitors, it's quite easy to choose two of those occasions for a visit. Additionally, with the major competition doing the calendar year as the earning period (except for Cosmo, and it's unclear how Resorts World will do their loyalty program), the tier-earning period being offset by just a bit could influence giving one more stay to Venetian earlier in the calendar year to perhaps finish making/maintaining tier status since you would have even more time to do the same elsewhere.

    If you are quite loyal to V/P, then you might give them a stay once every 2.5-3.5 months. Let's call it four times per year, but definitely at least three. Grazie Gifts in late November might be one of those, because of use-or-lose. Maybe the rest of the trips are around the big weekends -- Super Bowl and/or Valentine's Day (they happen to be the same weekend in 2022, and probably beyond) in February, Memorial Day in May, and Labor Day in early September. The earning period for Grazie Gifts lines up quite well around just those holiday/event weekends alone.

    Let's look at a 100% slots player under the old Grazie program -- one who only did enough action to make and maintain the Gold (middle tier). Starting from 0 status credits and at the base tier, that player needed $2k of theo to make Gold -- 20k status credits to make/maintain Gold, with 10 status credits earned for every $1 of theo from slots. That could be done in four gaming days of $500 theo each, or comfortably enough in three gaming days of $700 theo each. (If you were doing that kind of action in a single trip, then your offers were at least quite decent, and you might have been coded to a host.) The following year, starting from Gold and now getting 15 status credits per $1 of theo, it would only take $1334 of theo -- or just $1k of resort and hotel room spend (easy enough to do at Venetian in a single three-night trip if you straight up pay for it), compared to $4k of resort/suite spend at base level -- to maintain Gold. That would only take two days if your typical ADT is around $700.

    Moving the tier-earning period to an offset 12-month period and moving the goalposts out a bit to achieve/maintain the second-highest tier effectively creates higher potential for one more trip, and that is just pure marketing genius.
     
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  12. NickyJ

    NickyJ Low-Roller

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    @JulianC - No offense intended, your reasoning may be solid, but attributing 'pure marketing genius' to the V/P bean counters made me lol! :) Over the past decade I've watched them make some questionable marketing decisions, perhaps the dumbest being the last minute pulling of already booked comps, which turned many players off to staying/playing at the property again.
     
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  13. Flowers

    Flowers VIP Whale

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    I was going to say "PAGING @JulianC" lol and then you responded.

    I've read all of your previous posts but I too appreciate the cliff notes version as I don't remember you laying it out like this before. That's very helpful to see and in my case, the theo with both calculations above turns out to be pretty much the same. So, this focus group of one can confirm at least either formula gets you to the theo number. I didn't ask my host for the theo but I do think about what I lost post the big $58k jackpot I won January 1st and before departing on January 8th. I have a lot of tier credit already when I do that calculation it not only gives me my theo but, purely coincidentally, is a bit north of what I lost/gave back. I know that's pure coincidence but it's interestingly nevertheless.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2021
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  14. Cageet

    Cageet Low-Roller

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    Seriously, V/P did that? Wow.

    Well, if they ever pull something like that again... I'm gonna walk away.
     
    tier chasing and slot mashing
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  15. Flowers

    Flowers VIP Whale

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    Yep, I remember it well. I wasn't a V/P person at the time so wasn't personally affected but a LOT V/P players on this board and other boards were affected. Dumbest move I've heard of in some time.
     
    A Trip for the Ages with My Momma in Las Vegas
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