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WWYD hand from Mandalay Bay 1/3 NLHE

Discussion in 'The Poker Room' started by TRN, Jul 21, 2018.

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  1. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    I agree in principle, but in this case I think the call is so clear that it really doesn't make it harder or easier.

    Depending on whether you ever have him 4 betting 9's or 3's, or jamming a dry flop with top set, your equity could actually go DOWN by including nut flush draws in his range. It just doesn't matter because it will still be a call. The equity goes down but is still wildly profitable.

    Blocking the NFD would have matter much more if villain had been more sensible

    Aces vs kings is always a cooler, but that deep and out of position his postflop was wildly reckless.

    Realistically he shouldn't really be playing anything in his ep 4bet range this way on this flop. The best candidate is AKh, but to be an effective semi-bluff that is really only a good bluff if you'd also be jamming some value. And really only QQ in his range should have hit this for a value jam, and against a LAG image, I am never x/r jamming QQ here.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
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  2. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Mayor of Vegasville

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    Honestly, I realize it's the whole "monsters under the bed" thing, but I had aces 3x up to that point, they won all 3 times, and I just was worried they were going to get crushed this time because of it. So with the flush draw I just (non logically, all emotionally - I admit) assumed the flush was coming and that had to be what he had. For 2 seconds I had him pegged to AKhh. Then decided he doesn't do that on flush draws alone.

    FWIW no more hearts hit the board anyway. I would have beaten that hand anyway.
     
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  3. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    Believe me, I get it. This is one of those situations which feels very different at the table than it reads analyzing the spot online, and that is a monster pot to be calling with a single pair. I would probably call even live, but if I did there would be a big tank first where my brain felt like mush, and even if I did call I'd already be imagining which ways I was going to lose.

    The fact that the call is still correct only underlines how badly villain played that flop. He doesn't want the folds he'll get and he doesn't want the calls he'll get.
     
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  4. Hurricane

    Hurricane Eat, drink, be merry and roll points

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    This is a simple but very potent point.

    Which hands could hero possibly call that V is beating? I suppose AKh, KQh, 10 Js and AQ? And he is not crushing any of them.

    And he is folding out nothing that he wants to fold - basically just JJ, 10 10 and KQs (not h).

    Then he’s getting called and crushed by AA, QQ, 99.
     
  5. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Mayor of Vegasville

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    What if I said... I suspect his shove had more to do with my image (other than getting a bunch of pocket aces that night) than his style. I tend to induce that kind of behavior out of my opponents. I don't use words, but I still needle them and get under their skin with my hyper-LAG play.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
  6. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    Oh, I think it did, but with your image that is still a mistake. Hence why I called it tilt.

    A reaction to how he sees your play, but not a logical one.

    If he thinks you are bluffing here too often, he should be calling you down. The extra money you bluff away on the hand will pay for the coolers where he is behind or you hit.
     
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  7. KKB

    KKB VIP Whale

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    I'm re-raising preflop as well...guessing it all gets in preflop with those 2 hands.
     
  8. vegas!!!!!

    vegas!!!!! Low-Roller

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    I remember this hand, I was sitting on your left. This type of action is how it is at Mandalay Bay basically every night.
     
  9. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Mayor of Vegasville

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    Hey, I remember you too. I'll reach out next time I am heading out there. Good to hear from you.

    Your brain must be an almanac if you remember this by the description alone LOL. Good on you. I remember you saying you recognized me from my trip reports and what not, I didn't realize you were serious though.
     
  10. vegas!!!!!

    vegas!!!!! Low-Roller

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    Cool, you were fun to play with. Put me in some tough spots.
     
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  11. 18000rpm

    18000rpm Low-Roller

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    As others have mentioned, you not having the Ace of hearts means you should lean more towards calling because it puts the nut flush draw in his range.
     
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  12. LvBlitzforce

    LvBlitzforce High-Roller

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    Lol is this a thin veiled brag post or you seriously didnt know what you should do??

    Although by your betting size on the flop of 200 and no thought of 5 betting pre (although i love the flat, 5 bet looks too strong) maybe you were actually close to folding...
     
  13. La$Vega$

    La$Vega$ What happens in Vegas is put on VMB forever

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    I would think your prior history with V is enough information why he is shoving on the flop.
    Your decision making is if you want to play post-flop or pre-flop.
    I know my answer is coming in after posting your decision, however, having not read down to the answer and in that flop position I immediately thought the V had KK on the flop and presumed he had you by the gonads with his good hole cards. V was inducing an AI by you or was trying to make H lay down and buy it by a bluff or semi-bluff if he was not strong. Your history with V again, should indicate which I would tend to think (perhaps he had been bluffing, hence the passive flat?)
    - Personally, on the pre-flop with your hand being the strongest and with V's large re-raise to $150 I would have 5 bet to 3/4 the pot or an AI (based on history) hopefully inducing V to shove or call or entice a raising war, right then and there with his supposedly 'good' hand eliminating any other decision making from H on further streets.
    Not sure why you flat, to get it all on later streets (was he bluffing a lot or were you slow playing the pre-flop monster)?
    I think you're leaving value on the table with his re-raise or 4 bet to $150 and your flat (I want it on the pre-flop, he doesn't put you on Ace's again!)
    Also, most live players 3-4 bet with only their strongest hands and with the raise to $150, you having the strongest pre-flop hand which in my mind makes it imperative to 5 bet or go AI.

    As we know post flop is more dicey with more decisions to make.
    My guess is your history is what led you down the correct path to flat the re-raise pre-flop and to call V's shove post-flop.
    Nice call! 1 pair AA post-flop to call your stack on a shove takes grande juevos!
    This is also when I don't believe the shove and V turns over Q9 or a set! So, I try not to get in that position post-flop.
    1. What made you flat the pre-flop?
    2. What hand did you think V had before you called the shove post-flop?
    3. If you had KK do you lay it down post flop on V's shove based on the same history with V?
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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