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Table Games Why I am coming around on the Roll to Win game.....

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Irish Mike, Aug 30, 2021.

  1. Irish Mike

    Irish Mike Tourist

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    Went to vegas this past week and 3 different times had people throw money down on the table during my throw. Not like in the middle of a good run, but actually when the dice were in the air....It Happened at the plaza on Saturday when i had over $400 in place bets on the table and he sttod there and watched me throw twice (enough to see where i was actually throwing the dice) before tossing money and a card down on the table exactly where i was throwing the dice as they were leaving my hand...I was pissed

    went over to The STRAT later that day and decided to play the roll to win game with a $5 minimum with my niece who was there for her birthday....It was actually very refreshing...no stupid late bets, no questioning if someone got paid correctly and no chips to avoid on the table....just a sticky hard surface to throw on....after a little adjustment i was able to get into the 30's with roll numbers twice and had good luck with my throw (which is very short on these tables) no one really knows what or how you are betting unless they are next to you and see your screen (which i have no problem with)

    So at the end of the day, its good for the house with less labor to run the table with 10 players max, and its good for the players that can manage their bets properly and within the time constraints of the machine without having to deal with players with no etiquitte or table presence because the table shuts them down if they dont get a bet in on time

    Pro tip...Dont lean over the screen onto the table until the no more bets screen has come on to avoid an accidental bet of some kind with your belly

    lol

    Mike
     
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  2. PressThe5n9

    PressThe5n9 High-Roller

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    I also like to “buy” all my place bets even at the $5 level as they pay just fractionally better.

    When I was at Cherokee the other day, there was a guy putting money on the 12 and it hit twice in a row. Not odd, but noticed that on occasion the one-roll bets would get an odds boost. His two wins came on 45:1 and 60:1.
     
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  3. Calder

    Calder High-Roller

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    At least you still get to handle dice. I suspect this is where low-limit craps is ultimately headed; the 'vid seems to have provided the excuse to dump the $5 game.

    But I find it a vastly diminished gaming experience. The players are generally impassive, concerned only with their screen. The stickman's main qualification is the ability to stay awake for 60 minutes straight; no math skills required. The stick could literally be chosen at random from passers by: "Hey! Want a job? Hold this."

    I also get frustrated with other players on occasion, but that's part of the, oh, drama & pageantry that attracted me to the game. Gone is the cheering and high-fiving during a hot roll, congratulating a player for a good hit as the base slides a huge stack of cheques for that hard six, smart-aleck crews jawing during the roll.

    I wonder if someday you'll only see a felt layout and full crew in the high limit room.
     
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  4. Johnny Bollocks

    Johnny Bollocks Never mind the Bollocks...

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    I believe it is still preferable to place the 6/8 at $5 but I buy the 5/9 as opposed to placing on a real table.

    Buy 6/8 for $5 = $6 - $0.25 = $5.75
    Place 6/8 for $5 = 35/6 = $5.83

    Not that it makes much difference, but I think the place is always the best play on 6 & 8.
     
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  5. MCann

    MCann VIP Whale

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    Dont forget, on this machine, you can place the 6/8 for $5 and get paid $5.83 for a win, so you only lose 1/3 of a cent on the deal instead of the 83.3333 cents youd lose doing that with chips. Unless the minimum is $10 or $15, in which case roll to win can just uhhh...what's that thing I keep saying...
     
  6. Ballin'

    Ballin' Tourist

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    I think these tables are great for group trips. I'm hoping to go next fall with a group of fellow craps players and I'll absolutely suggest these tables as an option. Should provide the general excitement that normal tables have, and prevent the annoying issues to happen as well.
     
  7. HuskerBB

    HuskerBB VIP Whale

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    Played at the local Roll to Win table last weekend. I am not a big craps player but my friends I travel to LV with like to play craps so I play a little with them. It took a few minutes to figure out and get used to - but after a bit it became pretty much like a regular game. I think my friend who plays low limits will like those tables alot. She was with me at the local one and she was playing $1 place bets on the numbers. I think the table min was $10 - but that only applied to your total bet. If you had a $10 pass line bet you could bet any amount you wanted anywhere else. She can't do that on a real table - where typically she just plays the pass line with odds. Again once we figured out how to easily make our bets I think she liked it. Personally I was still putting $6 down for the 6 & 8 because I wanted my ultimate cash out ticket to just have even dollars. I forgot to tip the dealer - which I never would forget at a regular table when I colored up my chips - but in hindsight that would be another way to get rid of that "change" on the TITO by just including it in the dealer tip before you cash out.

    It wasn't as lively as a typical real table - but there were some fist bumps etc between the players. I think part of that is people are still getting used to the game system. Once it becomes more commonplace I think the tables will be more lively. (Also in reference to post #1's comment about no one seeing your bets - the Roll to Win table I was at did put out virtual chip pictures on the "table" in the middle that were color coded - so you could in fact see what everyone else was doing if you wanted to do so. Maybe not all tables do that - or maybe people can shut if off on their screen ?)

    I don't think my friend who plays craps for a little more money will like these virtual type tables. He is more old fashioned anyway - and he also likes making the dealers do the work - just throws chips in after the come out roll and says "78 across or 81 across depending on the number on a $15 table. Then he has a specific system he used for pressing bets as the numbers get hit and he quickly develops an understanding with the dealers about what he does each time. He will not like having to punch that into a machine instead of just saying "take it to $50" or something like that and having the dealer do the work. FWIW I did notice the Roll to Win screen had an "across" function but I did not try to use it as I don't usually bet all the numbers.

    I definitely think Roll to Win is going to become more and more common. I think it is much better than the bubble craps games - which now have single-player versions. If this allows casinos to still have lower limit craps tables with normal rules then I am all for it. As it becomes more difficult to find $25 3:2 blackjack tables on the strip I may find myself playing more $10 Roll to Win craps.

    I don't think
     
  8. Calder

    Calder High-Roller

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    On this I agree -- as long as the Roll to Win game actually has a stickman.

    At my local tribal shop they don't even bother with that. The shooter swipes or taps his screen, and LED dice roll down the layout past the LED cheques, providing an LED result. May as well play at home on your phone.

    Which begs the question: Why bother with the table?
     
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  9. ShotKDR

    ShotKDR Tourist

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    I prefer a regular table but I will play on one if that is all that us available. Be warned that if the stickman puts in a wrong number or does anything else that isn't correct and they have to adjust bets...It takes forever and the game stops until they get it straightened out.

    Was playing in Shreveport on one of these tables and the stickman did something on the screen that indicated that the point had been rolled when it hadn't..Point was 9 a 3 was rolled..he did whatever and the game thought the 3 was the 9...the roll tracker showed the 3 then a 9 but the 9 was never rolled. It took an hour for them to get the story from everyone, watch the video, review the game data and then PAY US OUT BY HAND! I had a $10 horn bet and yep..handpay...took for-ever...I cashed out and left after that
     
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  10. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    From a technology perspective, I think it's incredibly cool. But I admittedly do prefer a regular game if I'm playing. To each their own though, and I'd never begrudge anyone who likes it!
     
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  11. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    Although I saw these machines at a variety of place, I only actually watched at the Cosmo.
    From what I saw, when a player made a bet, a light would shoot out from that person's machine to their bet so you were able to see who was making which bets.

    Not sure if this is configurable or if I was seeing something different, but plan to give it a try next trip.
     
  12. Irish Mike

    Irish Mike Tourist

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    Yes...that is true....but you can silently turn your bets off without killing the "mojo" of the table or regress your bets without it being a big deal...i dont see myself playing these tables exclusively but i like many of the features and the short throw
     
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  13. tex55

    tex55 High-Roller

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    I prefer a real table, but I have realized that, in the future, my craps playing will be 90% played at Roll to Win tables. Since I'm retired, I can no longer fade the $25 minimums at the real tables.

    Frankly, it takes a lot of fun out of my Vegas trips; I won't be going as often in the future.
     
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  14. vsop

    vsop High-Roller

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    For those in the know, it seems like the electronic craps game (Roll to Win) would theoretically track your "play"...win/loss and time...in a manner similar to slots; and therefore, there's no doubt about how much action you gave to the casino....true or false...maybe?
     
  15. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    There's no reason they couldn't track your exact bet(s) for each roll and the exact theo, so time shouldn't even be a factor.

    In a live game, time is used to estimate how many rolls occurred. A machine doesn't have to estimate anything.

    What they actually do, who knows...you would have to do something like flat bet pass line for 50 or 100 rolls and then have some way to find out how much theo they credited you with.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2021
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  16. Irish Mike

    Irish Mike Tourist

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    this is true...and i believe one of the biggest differences between live play and electronic play...If you start small with your bets on the electronic games and press your bets up to, lets say $100 in action on the table and you rolled 10 more times with no changes to the bets that are on the table, you get cerdit for $1000 of play. Every time the dice are (thrown) that $100 on the table is at risk and therefore reflected in your won loss statement

    I bought in for $200 at New York New York two weeks ago and played a solo craps machine for about 90 minutes before cashing out with $189.00 I checked my mlife account after getting home and it showed (roughly) $8100 in and $8089 out for an overall loss of $11.....but i got credit for $8100 worth of play from that $200.....there is no way live play at a table would be anywhere close to that accurate.
     
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  17. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    How were you betting? I agree a live table wouldn't be as accurate, but I'm interested in how they might compare.

    For example, if a live table rating system used 100 hands/hr as their variable, then in 90 mins, they'd give you credit for 150 hands.

    So $8,100 wagered would represent a live table rating of $54/hand ($54 * 150).

    Of course, theo is a completely different question. And odds could throw the whole thing out of whack because the machine may be counting all $ on the table as coin-in, whereas an average bet quote you get at a live table may or may not include odds.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2021
  18. vsop

    vsop High-Roller

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    Interesting...

    Very interesting...
    I would concur that a player should get credit for the amount of action "at risk" on every roll, regardless of whether or not there was an outcome (win or loss) on the roll... Having said that, it's been common knowledge that, in the past, electronic games such as roulette and the community bubble craps, were notorious for their lack of points earning potential, purportedly due to the player's ability to "hedge" his bets i.e., betting Pass and Don't Pass, for purposes of inflating the amount of action "at risk", thereby earning better comps... But,
    I noticed that your play was on the solo crap machine and not the community bubble craps. My own experience on the solo crap machines was that a player cannot make a concurrent bet on the Pass and Don't Pass line...which is inference that a player cannot hedge his bets to inflate the amount of action at risk. If this is the case, then hopefully, the accounting of your play is the norm for this type of electronic craps machine...


     
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  19. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    All we really know for sure is that it looks like it got recorded as coin-in. If he says how he was betting we'll have a better idea of how they do it.

    I don't really doubt that the action counts in some way for theo/comps, but it's impossible to tell just from the fact it shows up on the W/L. Did he earn points and ExpressComps, TCs for it, etc.
     
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  20. vsop

    vsop High-Roller

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    True, that's why in my query regarding the tracking of a player's action on an electronic craps machine, I included whether the duration of play (time) was also recorded...In a "traditional " crap table setting, a player's rating is a function of money wagered and time played...the money wagered is almost always estimated, as average bet and similarly time played is estimated... The electronic games seemingly eliminated the guesswork regarding the amount of money at risk (coin in).... at issue is how does the casino factor in the time played...Indeed, it will be interesting to see what perks are derived from this....
     
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