Discussion in 'Casino Industry & Development' started by bubbakitty, Jul 28, 2021.
Love that pic!
Water and electricity are now at a premium in Vegas. They're running low on both, and casinos are taking everything they can. The $15 table bet doesn't pay salaries, it pays to water the offsite luxury golf course, it builds the offsite solar farms resorts are building now, etc.
I doubt they would count online. Vegas numbers went high because of pent up demand and money. The shutdowns kept people from going for awhile as well as many other types of discretionary spending, and while some sectors were hit hard , others boomed and some people working from home made the same money with fewer expenses. So once people decided, rightly or wrongly, that it was safe to cut loose, they had more in theory pockets and more demand to get out there and mix it up.
There is legal online sports betting and poker in Nevada .
I'm sure everyone has noticed that there are a lot of first time travelers on planes in the last several months. Or maybe if they aren't first time fliers, they don't fly often and don't behave in the same manner as people did on flights before the pandemic. A lot of first time or infrequent fliers would likely choose LV if they could go anywhere. Out of this group, many don't gamble very much. If they're not loitering in a casino, they're probably more likely to play slots than table games. This may be part of the reason for the decrease in tables and the increase of slots. Although they seem to make up a large part of the LV visitor demographic now, it won't last very long. Casino management reacts pretty quickly to supply and demand, so if the demand for table games increases in the future, they will return if they think there is profit to be had.
And inflation generally. As long as I have been old enough to go to Las Vegas, the following things cost within a dollar or so of the same amount: an hour of unskilled labor, lunch at a take out restaurant, a cocktail. Bet minima change more granularly because it's not practical to make chips in denominations like $4 or $7 and it would take too much effort for many people to multiply them, but a non-prime-time center-strip minimum blackjack bet has been within the ball park of this same level over the years.
1991: about $3
2001: about $5
2011: about $8
2021: about $10
2031: $15 - $25 ???
Caveat: these uncited numbers are incredibly approximate, based on what I remember, and subject to a lot of variation depending on when and where, but you get the idea.
Also, again I'll point to the consolidation of many individual resorts (Caesars, Park Place (Bally/Flamingo), Circus/Mandaluxcalibur, Miraggio/TI, MGMG, Sands, Boyd (Stardust), plus several independents like Desert Inn, Tropicana, Aladdin, Sahara , Vegas World(!?)) competing for strip business reduced to two giants (MLifers, Caesars), two more bigs (V/P, Wynncore), and fringe independents like TI/Circus, Trop, Sahara, Strat. With so many people wanting to come to vegas regardless of the cost, the giants have enough pricing power that they don't really need to compete aggressively except during the slowest off-peak periods.
Hey, at least they give us chairs to sit on now!
I feel your pain, the high stakes are the reason I barely play table games, they make me feel table games are only for the rich and I'm certainly not one of them.
Every trip I'm thinking of spending around 1K in gambling, but in reality I spend only a couple of $100. I think they are cutting their own fingers with those high min bet limits, because people with money will play those higher stakes anyway and now they only have those players. If they would lower the limits they would have all players.
For me personally, I first want to play some lower stake rounds, to feel the water, but also the vibe of the table. I'm there to have fun and want to enjoy myself. I'm not there to gamble aggressively and sit at a table with some grumpy players. So to lower the min bet limits would give me the oportunity to enter and enjoy table games as well and then up my bets when I'm settled in and enjoy the table.
But I can't imagine they don't realise this. Maybe by using those higher min bet limits, they want to direct people with less money to only play slots. Slots are cheaper for the casino (because there are no dealers) and bring up more.
They are probably right and the smarter one, but I still think they are cutting their own fingers in more than one way. Because the lower betting, occasional player can bring some life to a table with only serious high betting and more routined players. If the vibe is good, people tend to stay longer, play more and tip more. Also, when the vibe is good and you have a good time, losing money doesn't hurt as much.
Maybe they are trying to direct some people to slots. And penny slots will soon be dollar machines. More and more new ones are coming in .88 minimum or $1. Not sure I'll keep playing once all the older machines are gone. If I'm going to lose a few hundred bucks, I'd like to do it in a hour or two, not 15 minutes.
We love love slot machines. I am Ok with the casinos turn to all slots.
It's a bit of a maths thing too isn't it...
Imagine a BJ table with 5 players sitting betting $5 a hand. Say we play 60 hands an hour (that's more on the higher side of things), that equals 60 x 5 x 5 = $1500 total bets.
Let's run at 5% house advantage (again, this includes bad rules and some bad play of the 5 players and is lower in reality) we're looking at a whopping $75 per hour expected winnings to the house.
Now for this $75, you gotta pay the dealer, you gotta bring up drinks (but especially the CW wants to get paid too, even if minimum) and want to keep the whole thing running. Cleaning and so on... and some other costs
That's not exactly how you'd run a business is it? So even with more hands than likely will be possible and higher house advantage, it's barely making sense to have a table at $5.
Oh and I forgot, the people will be highly interested in cheap hotel deals, all you can eat food comps and of course it should be the premium brands in the drinks right...
On a 5$ maximum table I got your point.
Yea but...On a $5 table, not everybody is betting the minimum. I'm a $5 player and I usually have $5 on Pass, $10 or $15 odds, $12 - 6 & 8 and if the table warms up, then $5- 5 & 9 If it really warms up I have to be on the 4 & 10. And of course if a point is made, some of these are pressed. Maybe the times have passed me by. I could afford a $15 table, but I choose not to play at that level. I'd sooner go play $1 video poker.
And what about the $15 table that's empty. They are still paying the boxmen, stickman and that CW is still walking around (maybe) earning no tips, but still getting a wage.
I remember when Bob Stupak would give you 3 nights and $200 in free play for just $99 at the old Vegas World. That place was always jammed. Now, $99 will barely buy one meal at a good restaurant.
Not everyone at a $5 table is betting at the $5 level. Many times I’ve played next someone betting $150 or more across at a $5 table. Plus they lose the young professionals just starting out who can’t afford the higher limits yet, but in 5 or 10 years they will. However, they end taking up other past times and you loses them for life.
Agreed. Have you ever looked around a casino recently, like, really looked around at the demographics? Most of the people I see at the slots are older to ancient, while the tables are full of the "young professionals" Lets face it, The casinos would love to have a a full room of patrons eagerly slamming the max bet button on 88% payback slots, but that market will expire one of these days.
Most of my friends aren't gamblers, they are the guys you see who sheepishly buy in for $20 at a $5 blackjack table and bet $5 a hand. Everyone on this forum is desensitized to the ups and downs and keeps coming back because we like it, as a hobby, and got hooked on the low limits. I go to vegas with my friends, if they don't want to go because the limits are high, I won't go either, my local offers better tables anyways...Raise the limits and there probably won't even be a new generation of gamblers to get hooked....
At least not the type that will refuse to play 6:5 or triple zero roulette... and that's probably what the suits want...
That's it in a nutshell. The job of Vegas as a whole, your favorite hotel/casino management, or your specific host has always been to make you "feel" like they care about you. In reality, their job is to evaluate you mathematically and feed your tolerance (or maybe addiction?) to gambling and losing money accordingly.
Case in point: Our first host ever was 30 years ago at the Mirage and she was an incredibly nice person, just doing her job. She had worked in Las Vegas for years, starting out as a dancer in a production show. She understood the business very well. She over comp'd us for a few years and we did exactly what we were expected to do. Our gambling budget and bet per spin or hand increased pretty significantly because "the free room, food and booze" justified moving more money from the cost of vacation column over into the gambling budget column.
i certainly agree with you. in terms of younger people playing table games and the blue hairs playing slots, don't you think at some point, a certain percent of group A transitions to group B? further, i'd argue a decent % of group B was at some point in group A.
however, i don't think this will be the case going forward (to the same extent). i work 60-70 hrs a week in front of a screen. id rather get ether ragged than spend my vacation time in front of a screen, ie a slot machine. i certainly don't represent everyone no doubt.
Just an observation....most of the people I see with blue hair now are young to middle aged.
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