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Venetian slot tournament requirement

Discussion in 'Comps' started by maxev, Jun 11, 2021.

  1. maxev

    maxev High-Roller

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    I get invited to the dual slot tournament that Venetian holds every couple months or so, with the latest one running this weekend.

    In it, you play 2 sessions for the Saturday $100k and if you make the top 10, you qualify for the Sunday $150k tourney.

    You can also automatically qualify for Sunday's tournament based on play (my hope is always that the top 20 players are already qualified, where they would then slide in the next 10), but I've done 5 or so of these things and have never qualified with increasing play each trip. I've asked my host as well, and she just says I haven't qualified.

    So I decided to ask the people behind the desk at the tournament, and was surprised they were forthcoming with what's needed, which is one of two criteria:
    1) lose $6400 in a trip. This can be a one-day or four-day trip. And it has to be within the past 12 months.
    2) $2400 theo loss + $8000 credit line

    I've had plenty of $2400 theo losses but don't have a credit line. Never realized that would be a thing.

    So now I wonder if I lose $6400 in a trip, would I be invited to the next 5 dual tournaments, where I could then go back to my usual play? Seems worth it for the potential of placing high in the Sunday $150k tourney, since there are limited people who play that one.

    It's only day 1 and I'm already down more than half of that, maybe I'll be the guinea pig.

    Here's the prize pool:

    upload_2021-6-11_18-8-42.png

    --max
     
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  2. Cageet

    Cageet handpay club member

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    Thanks for the scoop!

    But yikes. That's more than halfway to Paiza Gold from scratch. I guess if I wanted Paiza Gold (which personally I can't afford) every year, this would be one way of doing it.
     
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  3. JulianC

    JulianC Amateur

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    If one plays just slots (or video poker, I believe; fingers crossed), it takes $10k of annual theo to achieve Paiza Gold.

    It is fair to think of this in terms of comp value. A common way to establish comp value from one's play for a trip -- the greater of 10% of total loss or 30% (maybe even as high as 40%) of theo.

    A total loss of $6400 from $2400 of theo means a total loss of 2.67 times theo. A total loss of more than double theo means the trip was quite unlucky. The higher likelihood of losing less than double theo, or even beating the house by losing less than theo (or straight up being up), is why the casino credit requirement is there to raise the threshold of access.

    Estimated comp value...
    • $6400 total loss --> $640
    • $2400 theo --> $720 (Venetian tends to do comp value as 30-33% of theo)
    The dual slot tournaments give you a comped hotel room for up to 3 nights -- two of which would be at a weekend rate. If we estimate the casino rate for a base-level room to be equal to the current poker rates, the three-night stay would be valued at about $400 right now (and that would soon be about $550). This should give some idea of the value of the slot tournament portion of the offer.

    This is also a great example of where trip theo matters more than ADT.
     
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  4. SumtingWongYu

    SumtingWongYu Tourist

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    Hilarious that the tournament desk workers are more knowledgeable (or more forthcoming) about play requirements than hosts/marketing. I can never get this info out of them. Only reason I knew about the 2400 theo is I saw a screen at the grazie desk I wasn't supposed to.
     
  5. JeJas

    JeJas VIP Whale

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    I am super low roller, only got invitations for $50k tournaments. I guess those don't have any comp value, only the Comped room has.
     
  6. Flowers

    Flowers VIP Whale

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    That's very interesting. This is TMI but I'll offer up one for the team for the sake of information. I lost $6k+ at V/P during a trip, but that was probably 2 years ago. But it was so brutal and I wasn't even staying there!!!! It was so bad that while I was playing a host added $600 in free play to my card and offered to comp any meals.

    That was definitely not within the past year but for a while I have been getting invites to all of the larger tournaments, including the automatic entry into the $250k tournaments, just like I'm automatically in each of the three tournaments that are part of the July 4th tournament weekend. But I've only done I think 2 tournaments in the past 2 years and while my losses weren't like they were many moons ago I have definitely, unfortunately, left a few grand there over the course of a two night double-booked stay with Wynncore during pretty much each of my trips to Vegas. That tells me that the "$6400+ loss within the past year" is probably not a hard and fast rule in terms of how recent the loss needs to be, especially in light of Covid, but that if one has been giving V/P otherwise decent play or losing in the $2-3k+ range on top of that initial larger loss that's probably sufficient to get the offer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
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  7. LoveVeGa

    LoveVeGa Low-Roller

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    I am super low roller..

    On the Strip my home base is Venetian, downtown The D.

    I got all the slots invitations from The D and V with the rooms accommodations.. for the slots tournament just

    like cherry on the top.. I will part take if they fix my schedule..

    For the last couple tournaments never rank high to get the prizes..but happy to get free rooms..

    Thanks for the information you provide..by the way for 2020 so far only made two trips in Apr and May..

    one brought moola back and one left all money at the tables.. they were all even out..

    Cheers.
     
  8. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    That is kinda interesting.

    Because I'd expect if I generated $2,400 in theo and I was playing say $5/spin on my usual slots, I'd consider a $5,000 loss a pretty unlucky outcome. So it wouldn't occur to me to open an $8,000 line (besides the fact I wouldn't want to lose that much on one stay).

    All my CLs are only $5k, I'm sure I generate $2,400 theo on some stays and I don't think I've ever maxed out my CL on a stay. Probably come close, but nowhere near $8k.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  9. maxev

    maxev High-Roller

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    This trip I made Paiza Gold (in their previous loyalty incarnation, I always made Gold but never made Platinum).

    Not a lot that's that special about the status, except that Grazie Rewards Points are now valued at $0.025 (Member is $0.01, Premier is $0.015, Elite is $0.02).

    What's interesting is that the $0.025 applies to all points I've earned up to now. I'd thought it would've started as soon as I reached Gold. (I hadn't noticed when going from Premier to Elite, since I'd always zero out my points on freeplay conversion).

    FYI in case anyone is on their way to Paiza Gold -- don't use your points until then.


    --max
     
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  10. JulianC

    JulianC Amateur

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    [This aside would make for a great separate thread.]

    That is one of the things I like about the new Grazie Rewards. The earning of the various types of points is much more straightforward and easier to understand. The advantage to being at higher tier is the point value at the time of redemption. In the past, higher tier meant having a faster earning rate for points and status credits -- with all points under the older Grazie system being worth $0.006 at the time of redemption regardless of when they were earned.

    Allegedly, better tier benefits are coming for Paiza Gold to differentiate it from the pack.
     
  11. SumtingWongYu

    SumtingWongYu Tourist

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    Is losing double your theo on slots in one trip that unusual? Seems like I do that all the time, although I mostly play VP.

    Goddamnit :mad:
     
  12. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    I'm probably overestimating my theo somewhat.

    When I'm ballparking slot hold for comp or how-long-will-my-bankroll-last calculations, I usually use 10% hold. And if I did a cluster chart of all my trips, my loss %s would mostly be clustered between 16% and 18%. When I lose 20% or more on a trip, both from a anecdotal point of view (how it felt during) and a statistical view, I consider that a pretty unlucky trip.

    But:
    The machines/denom I play probably have a hold under 10% (I hope), and
    I do long trips (typically 2 weeks), so I get a LOT of spins in.

    When I do a trip where I stay at 3 hotels, I have had individual hotel stays where my loss % was as high as 30%. But for a whole trip, rarely over 20%. And the 30% loss was on a short stay, so I still didn't max out my CL.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
  13. Cageet

    Cageet handpay club member

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    I am already cringing at the 7500 tier points I need for the 3rd leg of the three part tournament over July 4th. That's $1875 theo. Using a a 10% hold for that, but then taking into consideration bad luck and that could end up costing me more than $3k as an entry fee.

    On its own, not worth it. It just so happens that another 7400 tier points will allow me to re-up Elite for another year. If I'm re-upping anyways, I might as well get a tournament entry out of it as well.
     
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  14. maxev

    maxev High-Roller

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    Hope so! I do see this:
    upload_2021-6-13_16-4-49.png

    But it's all pretty much the same except now the spa is 25% off instead of 10%.

    I know they converted the Gold club lounge at Venetian to just a high-roller room (RIP -- I used to go there every trip for those finger sandwiches, fruit, cheese, and Pepsi products), and the Platinum lounge is now this, but currently no food or drinks because of COVID, the person at the check-in desk said.

    upload_2021-6-13_16-8-41.png

    --max
     
  15. maxev

    maxev High-Roller

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    I hear ya -- I did 8k tier this trip (down from my 10k last trip) and lost much more than expected loss, and don't feel like continuing to the $6400 loss for later tourneys. Though I still have another day, so...

    I should've actually just low-played and then waited two weeks to put in 7500+ for the RWB tournament to get into Blue.

    On the bright side, if you did 7500, you'd not only get to Paiza Gold, you'd also squeeze out an extra $37.50 of value from your Grazie Reward Points.


    --max
     
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  16. JSN723

    JSN723 Tourist

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    I am hoping they update the Paiza status to something a bit better. I am about 1200 points away from Paiza and I asked my host since I saw this rumor of "changes coming soon" from two different forums but she couldn't confirm anything but said she hopes they will.

    I will also be at the July 4th Red White Blue tournament and hope I can get into the Blue tournament...
     
  17. maxev

    maxev High-Roller

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    I'm currently at Venetian and dumped $6007 in slots and video poker (earned about 10,200 points -- got killed, and my range is around $3-$3.50 a spin). For some reason, I was thinking $6000 was the tipping point for getting auto-qualified to the second half of the dual tournament, then I searched this thread to be sure what I'd written before, and it's $6400.

    The rewards desk must've thought I was a loon as I kept going up to ask how much I'd lost. In past trips, since I found out about the $6400, if I reached $4500 I was done and not worth chasing.

    Now that I need to "only" lose $400 more and I'm so close to perhaps the next level of offers, looks like I'm back to the ATM before checkout tomorrow.

    Here's hoping it's true what the slot tourney person said, because it's more comforting thinking I'm basically paying $6400 for a chance to win $50,000 in the second dual slot tourney. Than the alternative, of losing that for nothing (I don't even have anything charged to the room).


    --max
     
  18. maxev

    maxev High-Roller

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    I checked with the Venetian host to see if I now qualify for the second tournament of the Dual tournament in September.

    This is the one that I mentioned at the start of this thread, where you need to place in the top 10 of the first to get into the second.

    Or, you can pre-qualify.

    In June, I had asked the people at the tournament desk what the pre-qualification was and they said it was one of two things -- a $6400 loss in a trip or a $2400 theo and $8k credit line.

    I lost $6400 and played 10,300 tier. I then email the host to see if she can now pre-qualify me into the second tournament.

    Her response:
    upload_2021-8-12_12-20-2.png

    This is pretty distressing if true. Why would the tournament people have told me something so specific? How could they be so far off?

    I have another email to her to double-check.

    And notice that she also throws in a dig regarding my "play level is still far from both events." I was continually getting invites to the $125k and Dual tournaments via marketing offers before I started using the host. Ever since then, I don't see any other tournament invites above the $50k ones. Yet she still adds me when I ask, and previously she said I qualify and doesn't know why they don't appear. Perhaps it's to make me feel positive about having a host, that she can add me into events that marketing doesn't send me.

    I'm now wondering if I kept things as they were, redeeming online offers on my own without use of a host, maybe I would now be invited to the second Dual.

    It's this type of thing that will get me to move away from Venetian. The Wynn MATCH offer comes at the right time.


    --max
     
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  19. AllenAndRossi

    AllenAndRossi High-Roller

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    Well I hope the tournament people are right and the host is wrong.

    And if that's the case, I think I can speak for everyone here at VMB in wishing you good luck on continuing to lose and sending positive vibes that you don't get on any winning streaks that screw up your tournaments!:D:confused::rolleyes::whistle:
     
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  20. JulianC

    JulianC Amateur

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    I tend to receive my Venetian offers about 3 months (give or take 2 weeks) in advance of the first date for which I can book them. For example, for my September through mid-November "regular" gaming offer (no special throw-ins, like gift cards or Gondola rides), I received the offer in mid-June. However, the cutoff date for play that factors into the offer might have been a few weeks prior to when I received the offer. The $250k dual slot tournament next month -- I think I got that one in early- to mid-June.

    The other thing here is that you might not be able to get much changed on your already-generated offers once they have been generated.

    Story time.

    Last year, I received my Grazie Gifts offer (for late November) in late August while I was in the middle of my first-ever stay at the Venetian. My historical play with Venetian prior to that stay had been $66 of theo on a single day of drop-in play nearly two years earlier. Starting from that trip, my trip theo with Venetian has been at least $1600 (with each stay thus far being exactly 3 nights). That first stay had the trip theo just over $1600. About two weeks later, I booked my Grazie Gifts offer through my host. The offer was originally for discounted room nights and $25 of free play. My host was able to improve that offer -- to comped room nights (still needed to pay resort fee) and still $25 of free play. Every single offer that fell chronologically after Grazie Gifts (starting from 1 December) was far superior -- no resort fee, more free play, a dining credit (though not on the slot tournament offers), and access to the better offer types (the weekend slot tournaments, dining-focused offers, shopping/gift card offers).

    My most recent stay at Venetian was in June 2021 (3 nights and 3 total gaming days; checked in on 21 June 2021) and my play that stay was about $200 ADT bigger than it was during my stay in August 2020. It was probably in late July 2021 that I started receiving offers that would have my June play factored in. However, it's only been the "standard" slot tournaments that have recently appeared. I expect this year's Grazie Gifts offer to be the first one that truly factors in my play from nearly two months ago.

    I must also note that I can't book my own offers online. I must either go through my host or call Grazie Services.

    There's a slim chance that your increased play this past week for the primary purpose of getting pre-qualified for the bigger slot tournament will have its first hopeful effect for the December 2021 dual slot tournament. If not that one, then the one in February 2022.

    I also think that the goalposts for offers are moving out just a bit. I doubt that it was the seven months between Venetian stays that caused the throw-ins on some of my future offers to have dipped a bit over the past month or two.

    Some highly unsolicited tips for maximizing comps and casino marketing with Venetian -- from someone who, about a year ago, had basically no insight into the property.
    • Don't have sky-high expectations for upfront offers. Venetian cares more about the current trip than your most recent 1-3 trips, in terms of giving comps back to the player based on play.
    • Actively ask for back-end comps based on your play this trip. Your comp value at the Venetian is 30-33% of theo. Even if you are coded to a Casino Marketing Executive or higher, still ask a host on duty to review your play on check-out day. Your coded host can then take a look later and provide a bit more comps at their discretion.
    • If you are going to give Venetian multiple stays per year, but you also give other places focused play, put at least 4 months between Venetian stays. I recommend letting some time pass so that your most recent play can hit your upcoming offers. Otherwise, you might regret having booked so soon, especially if your most recent play was drastically increased.
    • ... unless you see an offer coming up sooner that you really want to book. If so, make sure you play at least your usual amount if you value your future offers.
    • If time is money, it is better to redeem your Grazie rewards points for slot/VP free play rather than go through what is still a bit of a hassle to use rewards points for restautant/resort spend.
    • When getting back-end comps, your Grazie rewards points will not be wiped out.
    • Instead of playing much bigger in hopes of getting slightly better offers, save the money and put some of it toward ordering room service. I hear that it's pretty good.
     
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