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Vegas Message Board Vs Other Sites

Discussion in 'Non-Vegas Chat' started by Packer, Mar 4, 2016.

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  1. Sonya

    Sonya Queen of VMB

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    My favorite ever usenet insult was this one:

    Your a idoit!

    Talk about getting it all wrong. :haha:

    I just don't understand the nastiness all the time. I grew up as an idealist who believes in the idea that you should treat people as you would like to be treated. It takes just as much effort to be nice as it does to be an ass. I also fear that we are losing our sense of empathy in this world. There's a great quote about how everyone is fighting a battle that you know nothing about that sums up my feelings on the subject. It seems like people never seem to stop and think about how their actions and words can effect another person.

    FWIW, the people who seem to have the most trouble with this board being moderated seem to be the people who have some kind of superiority complex or just live to be a jerk and make other people miserable. We basically have three rules here:

    1 - No politics
    2 - No spam
    3 - Don't be a jerk

    Why are those polices so demonized?

    Do I over-moderate at times? Possibly. But it's always with the intention of keeping this place fun and enjoyable for the majority. Nobody has the right to be hurtful or cruel to one of my members, and don't even get me started on people who attack my amazing moderators. There are a lot of misconceptions around who I am and what my motivations are for running this place the way I do. I try to keep my personal stuff off of here for the most part, usually because it eventually gets used against me. I take a lot of crap from people and am the target of many personal attacks, but I know that comes with the territory of being an admin of a popular board. It doesn't make it any easier, but I try to accept it.

    It is very rare that we ban a person from this board. I try not to discuss board business on the open forum, but I do try to have PM/email exchanges with people and explain why I do things the way I do and get their feedback. Maybe that should change because the unfortunate reality is that there are people who just can't play well with others. I know there are a number of other boards who have a "one strike and you're out" policy and maybe I should follow their lead. At the same time, we have had several members who got off to a bumpy start here, who have become some of our more valued members over time. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but maybe that's naive.

    Right now I'm up to my eyeballs in trying to write code and setup complicated conditionals for the new software and that's taking a lot of my time and energy. I am not a code-monkey, which makes the process exhaustingly slow and arduous. I have taken one day off from this place in the last 3 months and it was because I had surgery and my doctor asked me to take at least one full day for recovery. Someone suggested I just hire someone to do the work for me, but that takes money. Truth is that only in the last few years has this board made enough money to keep the lights on, software licensed and the hamsters on their wheels in the server room.

    My husband doesn't understand my Vegas obsession. He also hates the headaches that this place causes me. A couple weeks ago he said, "It doesn't make you any money, so just sell it or shut it down and move on." But I can't do that. This place means a lot to me. It was a lot easier when it was a small handful of friends, but I like all the different opinions and the fact that I learn things here that I wouldn't know otherwise. We've had marriages, babies, and life-long friendships created all from just hanging out here. And I get reports of people taking information from here and creating wonderful trips to Vegas with the things they've learned. That is what keeps me here, slogging away through the parts I don't enjoy.

    Bottom line, I'm a fallible human being who is fighting battles and few know the full story. Do I make mistakes? Of course, it's part of that fallible human thing. But I'm always open to change and ways to do things better. VMB is always going to be a moderated board because the negativity and nastiness don't belong here as long as I'm running this place. For those who don't find the VMB style to their liking, as I've said before, you can either find a way to get along, or you can move along to somewhere else, more suited to your style.
     
  2. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    Thanks for the honestly and candor Sonya. This is the idea the moderation is done to protect ties with resorts and to keep the money flowing to your pocket, which I think is bunk.

    There is an idea that you are not allowed to talk negatively about a property or a place and that is not true either. You offer constructive criticism but saying going to x... is like having ghonnera is honestly not helpful, as those people probably never went to x and never would.

    There is an elitist aspect it to imo. Or at least they are refuse to recognize or accept people do vegas in a different way.
     
  3. natedog666

    natedog666 17 and 20 Expert

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    I have to admit I've been trying the other board as well as this one. One thing I've noticed that there are some very opinionated people on the other one to the point of almost nastiness...since I'm usually a very polite person this has turned me off. I suppose temperament is important too and I'm feeling that for me, perhaps somewhere that's more moderated has its advantages as well.
     
  4. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    It is interesting to read these two observations back to back. There are times in the past I have felt the same as Wanker. And I think what he is saying is true, but only very rarely. I believe the vase majority of members posting opinions, sometimes very animated opinions, are not doing it from a perspective of trying to shit on the opinions of other members who experience Vegas differently or at a lower level. And the best way to recognize that an opinion is not coming from some snobby, elitist perspective is the temperament (or I would say tone) of the member.

    I hope Nate doesn't mind me using his TRs as an example, but it really illustrates what I am trying to say. Nate posts reports of Vegas experiences and opinions from a level and perspective that very few of us will ever experience. Its also fair to say that his reports and opinions are universally loved and never come across as being elitist. And I think that's because of nate's temperament in his writing.

    Fortunately, I think that elitist tone is very rare on here. Having met a handful of different VMBers over the past few years, I can also say that everyone I have met is very down to earth and good, fun people to share some vegas experiences with.
     
  5. Packer

    Packer VIP Whale

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    Yes it puts a bad taste in my mouth. Nate, personality, temperament, willing to bend and common decency as I said openly before is arguably the most important things to being successful in life, business and on these boards. It's like kids, they need consistency, discipline and they need sometimes to be "moderated". Same for these sites. That is done here. There is a board that is all over the place and I need just a little more structure with less attitude as far as posts. That just isn't me but that comes from the top.
    This board has taken on a personality like Sonya. That's obviously a good thing just look at years here and all the members.
     
  6. Sonya

    Sonya Queen of VMB

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    Absolutely bunk. I'm not beholden to any casino, travel company or any other site. I have a few affiliate relationships where I get a small commission for sales using my links. That's where it ends. I heard once about a statement that I'm "on the take" from one property and don't allow anything negative to be said about them. They aren't even advertised here, so I have no idea where that comes from. I kind of wish I was on the take because, if I were, I'd get to Vegas a lot more often than I do. :haha:

    The only time I've been contacted by a company about what happens on this board has been from places that didn't want their ads displayed on pages with "inappropriate content". That's why we created After Dark to post your "Hookers & Blow" type of discussions, where I can be sure those particular advertisers' banners are not displayed.

    If someone says "I love Main Street Station" (just for example) and someone else replies with "It's a dump!", I'm going to call them on that. It may not be the Four Seasons, but it's far from a dump. However, if a person replies that they don't like Main Street Station because the wooden shutters don't close all the way and it makes it hard to sleep in, or the train and freeway noise from one side of the hotel is an issue for a light sleeper, I can't disagree with that. Those are factual statements based on personal experience and a perfect response to why you disagree with the OP. Disagreeing, without being disagreeable.

    There is a big difference between saying you don't care for a certain place and insulting people who do like it. We have a very large member base, coming from all kinds of different backgrounds, with very different tastes and budgets. I just want us to be respectful of people who are looking for something different from what we are looking for.

    I can't prove it to people who are determined to assign some kind of nefarious intent to my actions, but I promise that every decision I make here is based on what I feel is in the best interest of the board and the membership overall. I love this place, or I wouldn't have spent as much time, energy and money on it as I have over the last 17 years

    I really do want to avoid the us vs them argument. I think that the concerns and questions raised by Packer were wonderful and led to some interesting feedback. I'm not making any immediate plans to change anything here, but only because I'm deep into software land for the next few weeks. But there will be some discussions with my mods about our rules and policies and whether or not we need to make any changes. There have been some pretty awful things said about me, but I can't do anything about it without feeding the fires. I try to just keep my head down and deal only with what I've got on my plate, as that seems like plenty right now.

    I'm not allowing discussion about or links to a particular board right now. Mostly to avoid the kind of back and forth and us vs them mentality that I feel is toxic to the community overall. Maybe pulling this thread until I could ask Packer if we could make it more general instead of about the two new sites was a mistake. I can be over-cautious.

    But also, this has been in our rules for several years:
    Different people have different ideas about how things should be run. I get that completely. I had a funny PM exchange with someone who felt like they had to apologize to me and explain why they were posting on another board. For years, people who are members here have been on multiple boards. Many of my moderators participate on other boards and are regular readers of Vegas Blogs and other non-Vegas sites. Great! I wish I had more free time to explore other places, but VMB eats most of my online time.

    People come and go here. Some I'm really sorry to see leave. Others maybe not as much, but I always take some time for a bit of self-reflection about how I handled our conflict and what I could have done differently to avoid the resulting fallout.

    If you want to read other boards, or even stop participating here completely, I accept that. Nate, you know that we love your TRs and would miss them as they give us a glimpse into a world where many of us are not invited. :) But you have to do what works best for you. I'm not banning anyone or deleting their messages out of a personal vengeance. I don't have the time or energy for that kind of stuff. Hopefully, we'll be around for some time to come and whenever people are ready, as long as they can abide by our rules, they will always be welcome here.
     
  7. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    I meant that more in terms of "the outlanders" haha. This board does well with the diversity.

    And I agree with nate there is anger and nastiness and it may be temporary or it may swallow the board whole.

    Ever been to wizard of vegas and thier forums. I lurk there never even signed up cause well holy crap! It is like the ok corral!
     
  8. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    lol, I agree. I recall another VMBer once describing WoV as a lord of flies style experiment. That's an apt description and the reason I only lurked and never joined there (don't even really lurk often anymore).

    Long story short: this board appeals to certain types of members and posts. I think Packer is right when he says it has taken on Sonya's personality. And this style board is not for everyone. Which is why the internet is a big place with plenty of other sites for people that want different conversations and a different tone.
     
  9. blackjacknut

    blackjacknut VIP Whale

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    VMB only here since 2008
     
  10. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    When I first joined there (before I joined here), it was pretty serious. But over time the posters that posted frequently became more and more noise and less and less signal. Many infrequent posters that would post awesome posts when they did post just stopped posting there completely. Their "top poster" in terms of posts is complete noise and he is sarcastic as they come and most of it isn't even funny, just rings bitter. But he magically skirts under the "no insults" rule nearly every time. I actually prided myself for getting 3000 posts in there before starting a single thread because I mostly tried to answer others' questions there. My first thread there was my first TR that was cross-posted here and there. But as time marches on, I'm at VMB a lot more and more. Also the board software at Shack's site is very poor imo, which doesn't help. Non-regulars start threads in the incorrect section all the time there, much more than here.

    It sorta is. But they do have moderators! They just don't seem to do a bunch unless insults or spam are actually flying. And i've felt insulted a few times there, and reported it, but nothing was done. And general organization there...that's on the back burner. They may move/split a thread weekly. :evillaugh The main problem is I think most people use the "Recent Thread Tab" to post from. I know I do.
     
  11. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    I spend about 10% of my Vegas time here as I feel its one of the better Vegas related boards.
    There is another board where the other 10% of my time goes. This second board is dedicated to slot play but its slot play in any location and not many people there do Vegas.
    I find this board looks down on slot players but is awesome for everything related to Vegas.
    The other board is great for slot talk, but Vegas isn't discussed often enough.
     
  12. darrywizz

    darrywizz MIA

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    VMB is so active. Indeed the best forum on Las Vegas and am loyal to it.
     
  13. Sonya

    Sonya Queen of VMB

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    I'm surprised to hear that. Can you expand on why you feel that way? Here or PM is fine.

    I admit that I'm not much of a slot player. VP Degenerate, for sure! I will occasionally play when the people I travel with are playing a bank of slots, but I don't typically search them out, unless there's a new machine and I want to see a few bonus rounds.

    I was under the impression we had a pretty decent population of slot players. I know a number of people have contacted me about posting videos, etc. Hmm.. Do slot threads get lost in the conversations in the Casino Gaming section?
     
  14. Tbone3336

    Tbone3336 VIP Whale

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    There can be no denying that this VMB is a great site for Vegas and Gambling in general and even non vegas/gambling discussions, and I have seen it grow since 2010 when I frequented here before joining. That is a testament to a well run board. The years of enjoyment I received, mainly from trip reports from many of the people who took the time either live or post trip to share, made me want to give back and experience the fun it provides me to do a live from report. I always figured there was moderation but it never seemed oppressive, nor interfered with my postings, which until recently were minor. Comparing this to other sites I frequent for Cruising and Video Games related stuff, the moderation here seems minor at best compared to those sites. (I say that knowing that people that may have been moderated a bit more may see it differently). So with the preceding statement in mind, alternate sites can never be a bad thing looking at it from a consumer point of view as options usually always benefit the users and option a may not be for you so option b may be.

    My approach is I generally stay away from hot topic items on any board related to most items as so often it is hard to convey appropriate meaning many times from written messages. Others may look at that and say how boring that is, as they may like a lively discussion, ( as I do but more so in live face to face talk so my meanings do not get misconstrued due to possibly my poor written vocabulary etc.). So my long winded thoughts are I love this board, and I plan to post reports and other items here, and I will frequent other boards as well to experience what they have to offer.

    Thanks to Sonya for the effort I know it takes to run a website like this, it is not something I could ever do. And thanks to ALL the contributors to this site, and others, as their content is what makes these sites what they are over a period of time.

    PS: Sorry Packer, I did not really follow the OP in my response.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2016
  15. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    I will generally check around any number of sites for vegas news.

    But I only talk about vegas or ask questions on here. There really hasn't been any reason to go elsewhere, I get fun conversations and the answers I need.
     
    Tentative booking CETDorado farewell tour ends?
  16. breanna61

    breanna61 Super Moderator

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    I recall a thread that was started not long ago asking slot players (and there are many slot enthusiasts here) asking us why we play. I felt that many slot players here did a great job in explaining why they enjoy playing slots.

    The first 20 or so years I went to Vegas, I was a table player and dabbled occasionally in slots. Once all the new video slots came on the scene, I got hooked. My biggest wins have been on slots and VP and I could never have risked enough to match those wins at the tables. Now I play slots and dabble at the tables. my comps have improved greatly since making the change.

    Slot players unite lol. I love playing them and manage to waste time watching YouTube videos of great slot hits between trips.
     
    Christmas at Cosmo
  17. ken2v

    ken2v This Space For Rent

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    The "stupid" play is playing a game you don't know or like simply because the pundits are yelling at you. I certainly can't claim game purity as I'll chose shorter pay VP in an environment I enjoy versus a percentage gain in a hole. Everyone who likes Vegas needs to thank the high high rollers and slot players, btw.

    Getting this back on track, since segues drive some nuts here: It is a big internet world out there, and there are many ways to get your 'net on. As with the statement above, post where you like, like where you post, however many places that might be. A thick skin and a good safety on the report-to-moderator finger go a long way toward realizing that what was seen as a grievance really wasn't a grievance in the first place.
     
  18. Rush

    Rush MIA

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    Although the "nastiness" isn't as rampant here, it does exist. I have had infractions for "handing it back" to a couple of posters on here, and I get it. I'm not a huge contributor like some of the sacred cows, and I think that shows. I've seen a couple posters here who can do no wrong when it comes to shitting on other posters.

    That's business as usual at most sites. I know I get more leash at some sites where I have 30,000 posts, over the guy with 500. I get it. But, this place is a far cry from "zero tolerance".

    All in all, I enjoy the site. I don't envy anyone who has to moderate any internet forum.
     
  19. Bubbavegas

    Bubbavegas VIP Whale

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    Really VMB is the only Vegas site I visit daily, there are some I visit occasionally but that's it, only so much time in the day and I know most of the members here are legit folks as well. I visited one of the boards mentioned here earlier in the thread and tried to sign up, all was good till the sign up info went a bit too far wanting actual name and such, WTF do you need my real name especially in this day and age of ID theft. On the Mod issue as a Mod on two boards this one is by comparison a dream job from what I have seen.
     
  20. breanna61

    breanna61 Super Moderator

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    This perception is what is difficult for a moderator and why it is difficult to keep everyone happy. I know at times I have erred on the side of, "well it could be taken the wrong way, let's see what happens" only to come back later to find the proverbial shit has hit the fan and that is where someone like you Rush may have responded in the middle of the aftermath to an "iffy" post that was the catalyst.

    We're human, mistakes are made, but we all share one common interest, Vegas and our desire to have a friendly place to exchange info and talk about our Vegas obsession lol.
     
    Christmas at Cosmo
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