1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Unbelievable incompetency at Venetian

Discussion in 'Comps' started by rycelover, Dec 15, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. rycelover

    rycelover High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    537
    Location:
    One step closer to a casino!
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    16
    To fully understand this post you might want to read my recent TR first.

    I just returned from a weekend trip to VP that included an upfront comp of a room for 3 nights, $1500 FP, and a $500 GC, and upon check out asked my host, who is new to me, to look into comping off my room charges (brunch at Bouchon and spa).

    She replied via email with this response

    I am sorry but there are no additional comps available for this trip.

    The rates were pretty high so you were actually over comp’d on this trip.

    This made no sense to me!

    When i spoke to the host on the phone before my trip she specifically said that based on my previous play (on one occasion in July) that the offer which I booked could be covered with 2 hrs of play and avg bet of $300+ which I more than coverd this trip. I definitely played more than 2 hrs a day with an avg bet that was higher. In fact she said that if I played more and for a higher average then future offers would be higher.

    Since I exceeded the minimum play for the comp why am I not getting any backend comps?

    So I asked her for my ADT numbers. She didn't respond but another host who randomly came up to me during my trip texted me about contacting him if I needed any help with future trips. I explained my issue and asked him to provide my numbers.

    "2 hours play $567 average bet , actual comp 915 , authority 294 over comp more than 600 points."

    I was like WTF. I know for a fact that I played more than 2 hrs a day. He clarified that the computer shows only 2 hours played TOTAL for the three days!!!!!

    FML

    His reply: "That is from computer screen show and you have right to ask table supervisor about your rate / time in each table before you leave."

    I told him that it made no sense that it is my job as a customer to make sure that my ratings are correct. Of course I understand that I dropped the ball by not verifying my ratings when I leave a table. But that gets tiring when you smash and grab as much as I do.

    I know that me and my friend both played at least 4-6 hours a day for three days.

    The room charges were only around $700 so it's not that big of a deal but I told the two hosts that if this doesn't get resolved then I'm not returning to V/P.

    Im not holding my breath. Which is too bad bc I actually enjoyed the property. I liked its selection of quality restaurants and the room was very nicely appointed.

    Oh well. You live and learn.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  2. Ty

    Ty ?

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    4,830
    Location:
    Mid Ga
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    22
    Sounds very frustrating.
     
  3. Rookies11

    Rookies11 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2011
    Messages:
    364
    Location:
    Canada
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    11
    Haven't been to Vegas in a couple of years, but from several posts on this board and other news sources, I am beginning to wonder whether the entire gambling industry is turning the screws in all of its biz operations, to max profit.

    The 6/5 BJ, the squeeze on drinks at VP, the slowness to recognize time & playing levels, the ever increasing array of fees, etc. - all appear to be on the march.

    If the entire experience simply becomes non pleasurable and one needs to guard ones interests every moment- like taking a screen saver pic of the actual time you start gambling and demanding time & amount after every sitting... people will simply stop coming.

    It's not supposed to be a job/work for about 95% of us!
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  4. shokhead

    shokhead No big spender unless eating drinking having fun!

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2007
    Messages:
    6,853
    Location:
    SoCal
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    85
    Guess it's a good thing, you not being there for a few years.
     
    The Nugget!
  5. insin

    insin Speed Spender

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,497
    Location:
    midwest
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    99
    If you're worried about getting credit for your time played you could set a timer or keep a stopwatch.
    I agree that it seems like work though.
     
  6. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    18,677
    Location:
    TN
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    Assuming the "$500 GC" is a gift card worth about $500, it looks like they gave you somewhere near $2,500 to come stay with them.


    As they said, you were over comped up front. Based on the play that was tracked, you did not earn any ADDITIONAL backend comps.

    Of course, based on what you have shared, they did not track all your play. That sucks, big time. If they had tracked your play, you MIGHT have qualified for additional back end comps after they accounted for the $2,500 you already got.

    I see no reasonable solution to this situation. If they just take a players word for it, you can guess where the business model is going to end up. Not good.

    By the way, your friend that played similar - was he able to get some comps?


    Sucks? For sure. Worth NEVER going back? That is your call. Personally, I would take another good comp offer and then decide if you want to low play and say goodbye, or stick with them. Personally, I think they short changed me on my last visit(s) there and I am now an Mlife regular.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. bubbakitty

    bubbakitty Doing retirement again and happily so....

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    8,917
    Location:
    Texas
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    65
    I play no where near that level and feel for your loss of expectations. But maybe the places you played were used to that level as I am to the five and ten dollar tables. But when I play the pit guy is usually by 3-5 times or more, a nod or eye contact as he passes makes it much more easy to exchange information as that which is in dispute.
    To have played as long for three days I would have thanked the critter for a good game and let him know we would be back later or the next day. And, oh by the way, I know we played X hours but what did you record for my average bet? And thank him by his name tag. Should that be the customers responsibility; probably no but you can appear a courteous customer and a returning one. And get the information you need.
    Hope your next trip is more pleasurable for you. Good luck!
     
    It can’t be a rodeo without the bull
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Drewm1972

    Drewm1972 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    2,981
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    That's too bad.... yes it is up to a host to contact table supervisor and should work out details on your behalf it shouldn't be your job to "making sure table supervisor doing their freaking job"
    I hope they resolve it ... let us know what happens
     
  9. rycelover

    rycelover High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    537
    Location:
    One step closer to a casino!
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    16

    From what I understand, and I might be wrong, but at CET and Cosmo, up front comps are not a part of the calculus in determining whether back end comps are warranted. Meaning, the $1,500 FP, $500 GC and suite for 3 nights up front comp was awarded based on past play, and even if I no-played them I wouldn't be charged for that. That being said, I'm aware of the disclaimers that come with offers indicating that they expect a level of play consistent with prior history, etc.
     
  10. blackjacker2

    blackjacker2 Never ever play 6:5, it is not blackjack

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2013
    Messages:
    366
    Location:
    Midlands, UK
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    12
    They do not deserve your business. I would take your play elsewhere. My average bet is about 10% of yours and I do not play for comps, I take what they give me these days as the good days have gone, 10 years ago was a different world. As Beejay used to saying many of his highly entertaining posts, the comp yourself system works best. Skim a percentage off your bankroll and pay for everything what the comps you do get do not cover. It is amazing how much you can save and there is more freedom.
     
  11. rycelover

    rycelover High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    537
    Location:
    One step closer to a casino!
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    16
    I heard back from my host - the one who booked my trip:

    I am showing you played 2 hours total at about $560 average bet, this just covered the 2 nights I comp’d under your account.
    You would need at least 2 hours per day in order to get additional comps.
    Unfortunately my hands are tied as there was not enough time recorded for me to authorize anymore comps.
    I do apologize for this.
    You should receive a survey by email soon if you haven’t already. They do look over every single one of those and will get them to the corresponding department.
    Again I am sorry for the inconvenience.

    Here's my reply:

    I understand what the computer shows as my play, but what I'm saying is that the recorded data is wrong because there's no way that I only played 2 hours for the entire three day stay. i know for a fact that on Sunday, I was in the HL room for over 2 hours during two different sessions.
    Just so you know, telling me that your hands are tied really doesn't resolve the issue. It's hard to understand that V/P would be willing to lose a customer over this.



    And that's that.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. grosx2

    grosx2 Have fun storming the castle!

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    3,024
    Location:
    Chicago
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    29
    I know they wouldn't do this for someone betting reds or greens, but for someone averaging over $500 per hand, can't they review video?

    Overall, it seems pretty shady to me though. They have you playing a total of two hours for the trip, when in reality, you played over two hours each day, including two separate sessions of at least two hours each on Sunday. That's at least eight hours of gambling with only two recorded.

    I can see someone's time or average bet being off by a little, but this is a night and day difference compared to something like that. They managed to account for, at most, only 25% of your action over a 3 day period. I don't see how that happens by accident, especially for someone betting blacks and purples.

    I'd be pretty pissed if I was you, and looking for answers as high up the chain as necessary...
     
  13. Patman

    Patman VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,127
    Location:
    BC Canada
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    23
    My thoughts exactly. If you know where you played and when, they should be able to review it.

    Also, I'm not sure I'm following the logic from the host. If 2 hours total covered your comp why would you need 2 more hours (2/day) to get more. Shouldn't 1 hour give you something unless they are also applying it against the FP and GC.
     
  14. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    18,677
    Location:
    TN
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    Somebody else can jump in, but I have been told point blank by my host at Mlife and CET that you have to work off those up front comps before getting extra. And, yes, those upfront comps are based on past play. BUT - they are not a reward. They do that because the past level of play is an indication of what you will play if you visit again. Said another way, they think they can squeeze $2,000 out of your pocket based on your history. So they offer you rooms, food, etc with an expectation they will get enough money to cover those comps, and still make a profit. It is not a thank you. If you low play, they realize they misjudged you and made a mistake. They won't do that again. And, as you said, they will not charge you, they will just lower the amount of carrots for a return trip.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  15. Nittany1

    Nittany1 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2009
    Messages:
    2,815
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    89
    Been screwed on inaccurate ratings a few times and I know how pissed off I get.
    There have been many posts about checking your rating before you leave the table but I still only do it maybe 20% of the time.
    If it's busy I think the PB get a bad attitude about it.
    My worst experience was at the Borgata in AC where they had my average bet rated at $200 less than my normal starting bet.

    Your experience is probably the worst example I have heard where 2 hours out of 12 plus is counted.
    Somebody else posted a while back about requesting the tapes be checked and they did.
    I could be wrong but I thought it was Packer and they corrected the numbers after checking.
    Sorry if I got the person wrong but I do remember a discussion about it.
     
  16. rycelover

    rycelover High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    537
    Location:
    One step closer to a casino!
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    16
    I ran this up the flag pole just now and emailed two of my host's supervisors - most of this is repetitive of what I've already posted but figured some of you might be interested.



    XX/XX:

    My name is XXXX, and I reside in XXX; I do not have my Grazie player # handy, but I'm sure you can obtain that information from Ms. W.

    Your names were given to me by Ms.W, a host that I contacted through a mailer offer that was sent to me. The offer that Ms. W booked for me included a three night stay, $1500 in free play and $500 Macy's Gift Card.

    I arrived from XX on 12/9/16 and checked out 12/12/16

    The first of the three nights was booked under a friend of mine, thus, only two nights were comped under my name.

    At the conclusion of my 3 night stay, I checked out but was told that Venetian's computer systems were being updated so they could not review my play to take off the room charges. I was told to reach out to Ms. W directly in the afternoon, which I did via email.

    I asked Ms. W to review my play so as to comp off some, if not all, the room charges, including breakfast at Bouchon and the Spa. I also asked her to provide me with my numbers including my theo, avg bet, time, and win/loss for this weekend.

    Ms. W replied via email as follows:

    I am sorry but there are no additional comps available for this trip.
    The rates were pretty high so you were actually over comp’d on this trip.
    Please let me know if you have any questions
    .

    I responded by email as follows:

    I'm confused as to why you say I was overcomped because when we spoke on the telephone before my trip you specifically said that based on my previous play that offer which I booked could be covered with 2 hrs of play and avg bet of $300+ which I more than covered this trip. I definitely played more than 2 hrs a day with an avg bet that was higher. In fact you said that if I played more and for a higher average then future offers would be higher.
    Since I exceeded the minimum play for the comp why am I not getting any backend comps?

    I like going to Vegas (this was my 9th trip this year) and have received similar offers from Cosmo, Bellagio and Caesars and have never had an issue with room charges being covered by a backend comp. in fact, my charges aren't even that much (maybe less than $700).

    Honestly if you're saying that I have to eat those charges I will but will definitely choose not to return to V/P despite the fact that I enjoyed my stay. Especially since at other properties I don't have to worry about paying out of pocket for room charges if my ADT covers them.


    After this exchange of emails, I was contacted independently by SL, another Venetian host who texted me randomly asking me to reach out to him if I required any assistance in booking a future trip to the Venetian. I replied to his text explaining the situation regarding my comps. I asked Mr. L for my ADT, Avg Bet and Time, which he provided:

    "2 hours play $567 average bet , actual comp 915 , authority 294 over comp more than 600 points."

    I was in shock upon reading that text from Mr. L. I know for a fact that I played more than 2 hrs a day. These numbers explain why Ms. W said that I was overcomped.

    He clarified that the computer shows only 2 hours played TOTAL for the three days! I told Mr. L that was even more impossible.

    Mr. L's response was: "That is from computer screen show and you have right to ask table supervisor about your rate / time in each table before you leave."

    I told him that it made no sense that it is my job as a customer to make sure that my ratings are correct. Of course I understand that I dropped the ball by not verifying my ratings when I leave a table. But that gets tiring when I'm playing at multiple tables each session, as much as I do.

    I know that me and my friend both played more than 2 hours a day for three days.

    Thereafter, I reached out to Ms. W again, and stated in an email as follows:

    Your colleague SL provided me with my ADT and time last night. I'm shocked that the system only shows 2 hours of play for the entire three days. It is impossible for that to be true.

    I'm not blaming you but this level of incompetency among VP's bj pit crew is amazing and makes for a horrible customer experience.

    I don't think that I will return to VP if this doesn't get resolved in a satisfactory manner.

    Also I have posted this negative experience on several Internet forums relating to Las Vegas travel. You can read about it here: http://vegasfanatics.com/index.php?threads/unbelievable-incompetency.2007/


    Via email today, Ms. W stated as follows:

    I am showing you played 2 hours total at about $560 average bet, this just covered the 2 nights I comp’d under your account.You would need at least 2 hours per day in order to get additional comps.

    Unfortunately my hands are tied as there was not enough time recorded for me to authorize anymore comps.

    I do apologize for this.

    You should receive a survey by email soon if you haven’t already. They do look over every single one of those and will get them to the corresponding department.

    Again I am sorry for the inconvenience.


    I then responded as follows:

    I understand what the computer shows as my play, but what I'm saying is that the recorded data is wrong because there's no way that I only played 2 hours for the entire three day stay. i know for a fact that on Sunday, I was in the HL room for over 2 hours during two different sessions.

    Just so you know, telling me that your hands are tied really doesn't resolve the issue. It's hard to understand that V/P would be willing to lose a customer over this.


    I then asked Ms. W for the name and contact information for her supervisor(s).

    The amount of the room charge, in reality, is not significant, as it is less than two bets, but what I find frustrating is the incompetence of the BJ pit crew that I played at. It is inexcusable for them to have only recorded a total of 2 hours of play for a three night stay. I understand the constraints that your hosts have to work under and appreciate that they cannot overcomp a player based solely on unsubstantiated claims. However, I'm sure that if you review the video of those days and/or speak with the pit personnel, you will find that what is recorded in the system in terms of hours played is not accurate at all.

    As I told Ms. W and Mr. L I really enjoyed my stay at the Venetian and would have liked to come back, but not with this "sour" taste in my mouth. I'm not sure if reaching out to the two of you will resolve this situation, but it really makes no good sense to lose a customer over something like this.

    Any assistance or advice you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  17. rycelover

    rycelover High-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2016
    Messages:
    537
    Location:
    One step closer to a casino!
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    16
    It was Packer and his experience was at Aria.
     
  18. Drewm1972

    Drewm1972 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    2,981
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    Please keep us posted.... I love that your host telling you to do table supervisors job to verify what's your avg bet and Theo etc..... inside HL room they should able to freaking track it pretty accurately. What an idiots they must have working.
     
  19. Rush

    Rush MIA

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2010
    Messages:
    2,987
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    76
    Why is anyone shocked by this? Isn't this where Las Vegas has been headed? Squeeze as much as we can from the schmucks, and move on to the next one.

    How many people do they screw over like this? Let's say one in 20 complains. Of that number, let's go one in 20 again on the people who actually bitch long enough and loud enough to get satisfaction. That's a pretty good return on the screwing for the casino!
     
  20. sharper

    sharper Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2012
    Messages:
    406
    Location:
    West Virginia
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    17
    I hate to hear that Ryce. The Vegas BJ ratings system makes no sense to me and I hate it. I'm a red/green BJ player and I was at the GG playing once with some friends at a $5 table. I used a system where if I win 2 hands in a row. I add $5 to my bet for every hand I win. Early in the session I caught a hot streak and ran my bet up to $105 or $110 I think. Even after losing that last bet of over $100 I had made a decent amount and raised my starting bet to $15 instead of $5. After almost 2 hours I thought for the first time ever, I'd ask what my rating was. The pit boss told me my average bet was $7. I don't see how it's possible but didn't know enough to argue.

    I really enjoyed your TR and hope V/P resolves it for you.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.