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Table Games Ultimate Texas Holdem - Underappreciated?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by ThatGuyAgain, Jan 8, 2017.

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  1. UTHguy

    UTHguy Low-Roller

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    I only learned about this game in September of 2016. I've read through the WofO strategy and the Grossjean strategy and committed them to memory and put them into practice. House edge is a tad north of 2%. Clearly not as good as BJ or Baccarat, but I find the game more fun. Since there are no additional cards that can be dealt, the whole "you should have hit that 16" or "you took my card" stress you see at BJ tables doesn't happen. The Trips bet is also a nice touch provided you don't overbet up there.

    A lot of folks who play have a problem making the 4X bet pre-flop. I feel that's where the house saves a lot of money, even when the player wins. And I'm fine with that as it doesn't affect me at all. Many of the LV casinos that offer the game also are pretty loose about how you look at your hole cards, so you can create some player advantage in terms of knowing the # of outs.

    With that said, who else likes this game and what kind of observations and insights do you have?
     
  2. Drewm1972

    Drewm1972 VIP Whale

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    Last year at Aria (over the summer) playing 1am by myself I hit king high straight flush! Had $30 on triple so got paid pretty well... IMO this game if you are getting cards you could make $$$ fast and win decent amount. Otherwise, you will lose all bankroll in like 30 mins so be careful..... I paid my dues lol
     
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  3. UTHguy

    UTHguy Low-Roller

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    I hear you. I always come in for 200 units minimum so I can weather some bad runs, but I'll still get up if I go down 60-100.
     
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  4. dig

    dig Tourist

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    I love this game! I also agree with the 4x bet pre-flop...takes balls but is necessary. The game is high variance but I have done pretty well over the last couple of years playing it. Couple of trips ago I hit a royal flush for about $2700. The real money on a big hand like this comes from the blind bet at 500 to one
     
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  5. UTHguy

    UTHguy Low-Roller

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    Agree!! You grind with the 4X and score big with the blind on great hands.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2017
  6. jon_vegas

    jon_vegas High-Roller

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    I got my biggest ever win on this game back when they had the progressive at CET properties in Vegas a few years ago. I hit a royal flush on my very first hand sitting on the table. Haven't had relatively the same luck since then but overall still waaaaay up.
     
  7. burnaby99

    burnaby99 Tourist

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    Play it for fun only.
    The longer you play the more you will lose. Even if you win more hands than the house you can lose chips.
    The only way to win at any table game is to get ahead early then stop playing the game ever again.
     
  8. UTHguy

    UTHguy Low-Roller

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    The same can be said for almost any game in Vegas, no? If we all took that approach, Vegas would occupy one block about 300 yards on each side. :woohoo:
     
  9. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED The biggest Degenerate on VMB

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    So you buy in for $1000 on a $5 game, or $3000 on a $15 game??
    I've literally never seen anyone do that...people look at me like I have a second head when I buy in for $500 and begin to play nickels....
     
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  10. UTHguy

    UTHguy Low-Roller

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    Yeah, I get that two heads look a lot. No, seriously. 1K buy-in at a $5 minimum table. My betting runs from $10 X 2 plus 1/2 that on the Trips bet up to $25 X 2 plus $10-$15 on trips. I start out with 5 Black / 2.5 Green / 2.5 Red. The greens get used for the the 4X bets. That chip combo also helps me keep score.

    I like to put my money on the table when I start. It kind of pains me (and it shouldn't) when I see people going into their pocket time and time again.

    If I go to a higher minimum table, I usually buy-in for $2K. I'm not much of a roller, but after a day or two at a new casino I get to know the pit bosses a bit and they remember my buy-in and style of play. Once in a while, they might toss me a dinner comp.
     
  11. topcard

    topcard Re-Open Vegas!

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    You should win, over time, 50% of the hands dealt. The odds of you winning versus the dealer will always be 50/50.

    The house edge is with the blind bet only paying on straights+, and with the ante pushing when the dealer fails to have a pair+...(and, with the trips bet, of course).
    I'll go further than that - if you play properly, your wins will be for more money than your losses.
    The losses that kill you (percentage-wise) are the 1x ante plays. You risk $30 to win $20 or $10 (unless you draw a straight+ on the river). You're risking 150% or 200% of your probable win amount. You have to win these 1.5 to twice as often as the dealer does just to break even on these bets. (That doesn't mean you should fold marginal hands - a blind bet pushing is still better than losing it!)

    With the 4x ante bet, you are risking $60 to win $50 or $40. You're risking 120% or 150% of your probable win amount. Furthermore - for every 4x ante bet called for, you have a better-than 50/50 chance of winning... in the case of pocket nines or better, it's over 70%!
    So - on the hands where you have the best chance of winning, your reward-to-risk ratio is the most in your favor.
     
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  12. UTHguy

    UTHguy Low-Roller

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    Thanks for your thoughtful insight.

    I also do play Trips. I limit my Trips bet to 1/2 my ante/blind. It costs me some upside, but it mitigates a bit of risk when I'm not winning or calling a lot of 1X situations. I haven't tried to calculate the impact, but it's a strategy I'm comfortable with. The next time I play I'm thinking of doing 2 sessions - one with Trips betting and one without for comparison.
     
  13. topcard

    topcard Re-Open Vegas!

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    I use to play it sporadically - now I play Trips every hand... I prefer the same as you - 1/2 of my ante-bet... for me, that would be 10-10-5.
    I ran the numbers a while back & it comes out to 1-in-6 to 1-in-7 trips bets win. (Call it once in every 6.5 hands). You'll hit something 15% of the time.
    Most of those hits are 3-of-a-kind, with the periodic straight & flush...and the occasional full-house.

    The average pay-out is probably about 5-to-1... giving the house a roughly 23% edge.
    So - imagine if you could correctly sit out on the Trips bet 1 out of ever 6 hands - so that you were hitting every 5.5 hands.That would reduce the house edge dramatically, to 9.1%.
     
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  14. boxofbirds

    boxofbirds Royal Flushless

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    Love UTH! Great when it's hitting, but have had several sessions where I lose lose lose.... My favorite part is the strategy. I like it when you have to think a bit. Not too complicated, got it mostly memorized, but bought a strategy card that I look at if I have a situation that I'm not sure about.

    I agree, hate it when I see someone flip over an ace and they only bet 1x!
     
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  15. PartTimeDegen

    PartTimeDegen Low-Roller

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    I too am a fan of UTH. Worst thing is having to hear about my "crazy" style from the dealers and other players. Went to my local with a group of friends last month and the dealer was arguing with me about 4x pf when my buddy got KQ.
     
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  16. AbFab

    AbFab Low-Roller

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    OOh I too love this game. MGM usually has it 5 bucks in the AM.

    Wishing AC finally gets this game.
     
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  17. JeJas

    JeJas VIP Whale

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    I hate the game.
    In 30 minutes, got dealt pair of Aces twice, and the board was garbage.
    But each time the dealer flipped two garbage cards to match to board to form a 2-pair.
     
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  18. Wezvidz

    Wezvidz High-Roller

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    The only table game I play. It's harsh in the ups and downs but I started gambling as a poker player and this is poker crack (basically like being 'all in' every hand). I also like others here find it funny when playing properly (like K9s 4x preflop) I get called crazy by dealers and players. Basically shows you how large a house edge the casino has in this game since everyone else plays incorrectly.
     
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  19. rittermd

    rittermd Low-Roller

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    Whats the best website for UTH basic play strategy. I have played and had a blast (but lost in the long run)
     
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  20. boxofbirds

    boxofbirds Royal Flushless

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    As with every gambling game, my go-to is Wizard of Odds. They have a breakdown of the game house edge, the rules, a practice game you can play, plus a basic strategy. http://wizardofodds.com/games/ultimate-texas-hold-em/
     
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