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Trying to seed for a teaser comp, Wynn or V/P?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by romeocasido, Oct 3, 2020.

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  1. SoCalMon

    SoCalMon VIP Whale

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    Low rolling for hours is better than high betting for a few hours? I am going to give some examples here and I would like you to let me know who would get the most comp. I am going to give 5 examples with player a, b, c, d, and e....

    There are 5 players (Player A, B, C, D, and E) and each player brought only a hundred dollar bill to play in that particular casino except for 1, which brought $400. Cosmo is going to be used as the example because you sound like you are familiar with the comp system there. Not sure how much coin in it is per spin though, but hopefully you get the idea and can answer the question to see what comp each player would get depending on length of play of a single hundred...

    Player A: $100 lasted 1 hour (lets say $5 per spin)
    Player B: $100 lasted 2 hours (lets say $2 per spin)
    Player C: $100 lasted 4 hours (lets say $1 per spin)
    Player D: $100 lasted 8 hours (lets say, 50 cents per spin low roll)
    Player E: $400 lasted 4 hours (lets say $2 per spin and not winning)

    Which player do you think will get the most comp and what do you think they will get just by looking at the hours and how long a hundred dollar bill would last. I added in player E just to see if more money spent in a certain amount of time would help comp offers if not winning. Sometimes we cannot find a machine that will not let us keep playing and have to keep putting money in. Goal for me though is whatever I put in to last a long time and not take take take. I usually bring at the most $400 with me to casinos and anytime I get bad trips where not much pays and not much points, offers always hurt and go down. On good trips if I can last a long time, I get better offers.
     
  2. JulianC

    JulianC Amateur

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    @SoCalMon My first post in this thread explains why none of these players A through E basically even has a chance, and why the OP @romeocasido would have a chance.

    We will presume that the slots have a hold of 10 percent and that the pace of play is 600 spins per hour. Both are reasonable parameters.

    Only player E would even be close to being favorable for comps, with the expectation of lasting about 3 hours, 20 minutes if losses equal theo.

    Player A is the perfect example of who would not get comped if that $100 was all that was going to be committed for playing at the casino. Player A is just taking a shot at the casino and hoping to get super lucky. Player A is basically mimicking a certain YouTuber who travels all over the Upper Midwest recording slot videos (though that particular YouTuber does get comps due to actually playing a significant enough volume per gaming day). I would expect player A to last just 20 minutes (200 spins).

    Players B, C, and D would fare better. In order for players A through D to beat the house (have actual losses lower than theoretical losses, they would have to make that $100 last for longer than $1000 of coin-in. Player B would be expected to make it 50 minutes (500 spins). Player C would be expected to make it 1 hour, 40 minutes (1000 spins). Player D would be expected to make it 3 hours, 20 minutes (2000 spins). Realistically, player B shouldn't get a front-end comp offer. For player C, it would still be questionable.

    For players A through D, if that $100 was miraculously able to stretch out to $200 of generated theo, that might be enough to get sporadic weeknights comped at Cosmo -- up to two consecutive nights. After using said likely comp offer, that kind of play wouldn't even move the needle at Cosmo. At $100 theo, expect sporadic weeknights discounted (remember that a discount is still a comp) at Cosmo and then not even a room discount offer (at least based on gaming) if your theo doesn't significantly increase. Player E would definitely get a good teaser offer off of a probable $400 of theo. However, player E would struggle to "earn the room" upon a repeat gaming performance upon staying on that offer, and any future gaming-based room offers still might not be as awesome as the first.

    By now, I hope you noticed that I basically ignored your proposed slot session lengths, in terms of time. Proper money management (in bold, because it is a concept that gets overlooked way too much in the comp game) doesn't care how long you hope to last or how much you hope to win. With effective money management, you will know how much money to bring for the game(s) you wish to play based on the typical variance, volatility, and house edge of the game(s), combined with either the expected minimum or average bet. That knowledge would allow for a more accurate estimate of how long to expect the gaming session to last based on the session bankroll.

    Some tips on how to pick a slot machine...
     
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  3. Eleven99isFine

    Eleven99isFine VIP Whale

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    When you say Time on Device, do you mean one slot machine? Or time on multiple machines?
     
  4. Homeschool

    Homeschool Low-Roller

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    That's exactly why she didn't get a teaser offer. One of the first questions they ask when you sign up for a red card is "are you staying with us here at the hotel?".

    I signed up for a card and played slots for about 90 minutes, maybe 2 hours but I doubt it, at .75-$1.25 a spin. Received an offer of 2 or 3 nights and some free play (don't remember the specifics). Stayed on the offer and brought the missus. She signed up for a card and we played (actually more and for longer) hoping to get her a teaser offer. No offer came. Only difference between my situation and hers was the answer to the "are you staying with us" question. Makes sense from their point of view....if you're already staying there they don't need to entice you with an offer to get you to stay with them.
     
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  5. KKB

    KKB VIP Whale

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    OK, I have played V/P several times over the years. LOVED Rock of Ages bar. Most trips I would spend a long evening or 2 there playing .25 VP. NOTHING, not one offer from that.
    In June I spent maybe 3 hours at Palazzo bar playing .25VP. Then another hour one morning at Venetian. THAT'S IT. I earned less than 1000pts.
    I got a mailer for 3 free nights plus $25 FP that I can use twice between Oct.-Dec., including weekends (which I laughed at...and now I look to be taking advantage of it twice!).
    I logged into my account & I also have FIVE offers for 3 free nights plus a slot tourney over the next 3 months. These are weekdays, but still.
    They are OBVIOUSLY opening up offers these days due to low occupancy.

    Interesting to see the posts here on the various players clubs "systems". I have a card everywhere, but we are usually comped at CET properties...we mostly play poker tournaments & video poker, and rarely pay for a room in Vegas. We play all over...but typically am a "hit & run" kind of player, tho I am more likely to play .25 VP for longer sessions. We have seen a slight uptick in MLife offers (NOTHING before...to a room at ParkMGM/Luxor or 3 nts at Excal--hilarious as these are not properties we gamble at really at all...)
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
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  6. romeocasido

    romeocasido High-Roller

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    Thanks for the story @KKB . I heard that the end of the year holiday months can be pretty slow. That plus lower than normal occupancy is what I'm thinking is causing this uptick in comps for Oct-Dec... Did you even get offered midweek Dec comps at V/P in precovid years?... And I'm wondering if those offers will keep coming once the new year hits
     
  7. KKB

    KKB VIP Whale

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    nope--these r the first comps ive ever received from V/P
     
  8. ducc

    ducc Low-Roller

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    I regularly get 3 free nights any night at the V/P. Also the 250k and 50k tournaments there as well as dining offers and cruise offers(not doing them now). My first trip to the V/P I took $2,500 spent it all in one day on mainly penny slots. Got on a really lucky run and played enough to go from the bottom to halfway to their platinum tier. Recently I went and got 7,xxx points on a 3 day tournament trip. I no longer get the 250k full invite, it's now and invite to the 100k portion and if you place top 10 you get to play the 150k portion. I can vouch the wynn is much better on your pocket with slots. I took the same $2,500 (penny slots) to the wynn got 4,0xx points (about 5 hours of play) and left with $300 extra. From that the wynn sends $300FC and $200DC with 3 nights. Not sure how cjcjcj got the 1k offer, maybe he was closer to the 5k point mark?
     
  9. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    I think I agree with just about everything @JulianC always says, but there's a flaw with TOD as a player metric that I'm not sure has been covered, and that is simply varying speed of play.

    I don't play slots that show tv episodes as part of the bonuses, I think the longest bonus round I ever had might have been 4 minutes or so on Cleo II.

    When I'm playing a 3 reel Double Diamond, I'm easily doing between 500 - 600 spins an hour.

    I agree if you have $X bankroll and you want to maximize your theo, you size your bets accordingly to grind things out and not bust out too fast.

    But if I go in knowing I'm going to do $5k coin-in in a session all on one machine, all at the same per spin amount, why should I spend 4 hours doing it when I can do it in 2?

    I believe you when you say hosts have talked about TOD, but I think that's one of those things that just started getting glommed into the conversations I dunno, 3 or 4 years ago. I remember hearing a couple of people all of a sudden who said their hosts (V/P and Aria I think) started quoting their slot play in terms of time and average bet and I said WTF?

    I think TOD originated as an industry term associated with the stickiness/attractiveness of a machine to players and then somehow either infected host-speak or was intentionally injected into it.

    If I do $5k coin-in on a $5 denom machine at $5/spin, I doubt that doing 250 spins/hr for 4 hours is of any benefit to me comps-wise compared to 500 spins/hr for 2 hrs.

    So I was in the casino 2 hours longer. Sitting at the same machine the whole extra time. Doing what? Nothing (thinking about sex).

    Maybe I'm missing something about the current usage of the term.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
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  10. JulianC

    JulianC Amateur

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    I have been told by at least one host-on-duty (to whom I am not coded) that back end at that particular property does not become a possibility until the average daily TOD for the stay/trip is a minimum of 4 hours. Falling short of that established threshold could mean less back end, if not eliminating the possibility of back end.

    (This paragraph is mostly for everyone else.) The machine stickiness part of TOD matters more to the part of casino management that handles the game selection on the floor. The use of TOD as a metric for play volume is for casino marketing (regardless of how it may exist under the casino gaming management). For both, the bottom line is the same -- keep the player in the casino for as long as possible. (Think about all the tales about casino hosts being ordered to do whatever it takes to keep a major player happy to prevent that player from bailing to go play down the street.) Staying longer in the casino increases the potential for non-comped out-of-pocket non-gaming spend. Machines that do not fill in as cash vacuum cleaners and also keep the customer entertained lead to repeat business. The gaming side helps make the hospitality side more money. The marketing side gains knowledge about how (and how much) to entice (and/or perhaps reward) players to stay on the hamster wheel, on both the gaming and hospitality sides.

    The original topic here is about what kind of casino play it would take to garner starter enticements from high-end resorts. I presume that the desired answer would be something along the lines of, "Earn 750 points and they will give you 3 free nights, $100 FP, and $50 food/beverage." The answer that absolutely nobody wants -- "If your smaller sample of play shows potential to match the casino's desired player profile, you will receive enticements to appropriately match that profile. The initial enticement will be offered in hopes of gaining a greater percentage of the player's business upon making that second trip. The enticements for thrid and future trips will depend on action given during the second trip."

    So few here think in terms of how to optimize their enticements past the second trip/visit/stay. Those who do probably never had to think in terms of "teasers" in the first place, and probably focused more on finding the best overall fit to enjoy their visits -- usually, keeping multiple places in healthy rotation. Instantly-gratifying "guaranteed free stuff" might not always be the entirety of an overall +EV play.
     
  11. romeocasido

    romeocasido High-Roller

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    I've seen superstitious slot players go on a bad run, then cash out, take out their player card only to immediately put it back in the same machine and play again. I've done this too... I wonder if these artificial short sessions are counted against. Or do they just look at the play overall... I've been known to casino hop or even table hop frequently. I figured since it was in all CET casinos it would all be counted as one big session anyways
     
  12. ACSCLE

    ACSCLE Low-Roller

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    Can they seriously be expecting people to sit on 1 machine for hours at a time? I would die of boredom...
     
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  13. crm1310

    crm1310 Low-Roller

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    I think it takes much much less for a teaser offer vs a normal offer you will end up getting. I stayed 2 nights at Wynn using their slot app my budget was 300 per day. I only got 980 points over 2 days all on slots. I figured I would never hear from them. Very soon after I received an email for 3 nights with $100 in FB but had to use it the next month. I was shocked at the offer but could not take it as I had no bankroll for next month!

    I think most of the advice on generation of offers is for normal offers. A true teaser offer can be given I believe by signing up and dropping a little coin in. I think the OP will generate a nice teaser offer for sure no issues. Just play and have fun don’t stress about the offer. Save the stress for when you take the offer and try to maintain it!
     
  14. romeocasido

    romeocasido High-Roller

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    Was that a Sun-Thurs offer? Or were weekends included?
     
  15. JRRestoule

    JRRestoule VIP Whale

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    Here’s my 2 cents based on my experience... play a min of $2.50 a pull, $5 is better (or more) for a few hundred dollars and quit. That will get you your teaser offer. Don’t worry about the amount of time playing or total coin in or whether you are up of down. Those things are what they look at for established players. A higher denom will get their attention more than betting $1 per spin for 4 hours. They will give you a good offer because they believe you are a bigger player that just stopped through quick. As a new player this will work for a decent initial teaser offer.
     
    Finally back after 22 LOOOONG months!
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  16. AyDee

    AyDee is getting too old for this

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    :soapbox:Comp Yo Self.
    less headaches. :bang:

    iow, we've started saying "they get what they get."
    with the corollary, "we get what we get".

    T/F: playing up to whatever level for comps incentivizes you to gamble and lose?

    at least imho, I'm wondering..

    (sorry if OT)
     
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  17. crm1310

    crm1310 Low-Roller

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    It was a Sunday through Thursday offer.
     
  18. MrPloppy

    MrPloppy Newbie

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    And exactly why I give CET most of my play. Screw places that are stingy on comps. I do enjoy Wynn's cocktail service, however I'd rather pay for a room on hotwire than give them the kind of action needed for a room comp.
     
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  19. crm1310

    crm1310 Low-Roller

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    Same here I focus my play at CET as well as I get much more comps from them for the same $$
     
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