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Table Games There are no "Lay Place" Bets on the Don't Pass Side of Craps

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Ben Jammin, Apr 3, 2018.

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  1. Ben Jammin

    Ben Jammin VIP Whale

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    There are no "Lay Place" Bets on the don't side.
    You can place the 6 and 8 for 6 each or multiples thereof, but You can't "Lay Place" if you are on the don't. On line casinos may allow this but I have verified that there are no Lay Place bets on a table in Las Vegas.
    Is that a bummer?
    Well if you make the come out roll the odds shift dramatically in your favor on the don't side so I would say no, because you are in a winning position.
    The purest bet on the table would be to roll one big don't pass bet, lay maximum odds and wait.
    Technically if you put up a don't come bet after your "Don't Pass" point has been established, and you have layed maximum allowable odds, You are betting against yourself, because the don't come bet goes away if a 7 is rolled, although you are paid on your remaining numbers with lay odds.
    If your point is rolled you lose that bet, and the don't come bet will go up in it's place, whereas you will want to lay odds on that as well, having just lost that number's bet and odds, it's an endless progression and you bleed out slow if the shooter is hot and keeps hitting the numbers rather than 7'ing out.
    Check the Wizard's web site. You'll see the lay place scenario is not available at a live table.
    Thanks,
    Ben
     
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  2. ardee

    ardee It's only money.

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    Ben. Why do we need to check the Wizard's website when we have you?
     
  3. Hogman

    Hogman VIP Whale

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    I routinely see lay place bets on the 4 and 10(with 5% commission). I would be surprised if you couldn’t do it on any number. I also see people lay the last number on a feature bet, which is any number. Is this the type of bet you are talking about?
     
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  4. OddsWrkin

    OddsWrkin Low-Roller

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    Lay Place? If you are talking about a lay bet, I have seen all points bet as a lay bet. There is generally at least one player that will lay the fifth and sixth point of a fire bet once it is established as the point. If the lay bet isn't what you intended, I have no clue what you are talking about.
     
  5. Craps_Player

    Craps_Player Low-Roller

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    Quite agree Hogman, you can do whatever you want. You can lay all the box numbers if you wish, whether you are Pass or Don’t Pass, or don’t have a bet in either. Not sure what this post is really aiming at. If you are playing the don’t pass, I’ve seen players put place bets on the box numbers. I guess that’s the opposite of a Pass line player laying a box number ??
     
  6. rallen

    rallen Low-Roller

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    Just in my own thoughts, the place/buy betting on the numbers is:

    Place To Win (regular Place bet) has Place To Lose as its opposite.
    Buy bet has Lay bet as its opposite.
     
  7. charlestfuller

    charlestfuller Low-Roller

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    Haha this dude....
     
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  8. Hogman

    Hogman VIP Whale

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    The thing about it is that Place to lose and a lay bet are the same thing. They charge you a commission to do this because you have the advantage after the come out roll.
     
  9. Ben Jammin

    Ben Jammin VIP Whale

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    Need I clarify? A place bet is on the pass line side, place the 4,5,6,8,9,or10.
    Best odds are the 6 and 8, this is why you will rarely see anyone place the other numbers. 6 and 8 pays back 7 for 6, less than 2% vig.
    Lay palace would be the opposite, lay 7 to get back 6, but it is not allowed. You wouldn't want to do that anyway on the don't.

    Here's a link
    https://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/basics/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2018
  10. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    This is kind of silly because really all we are talking about is semantics and the original post. I think even the OP is now acknowledging that you can make place bets on the dark side. I have done it a couple times in different casinos, have always referred to it as "laying" a bet, and the dealers have always known what I meant.

    I haven't been on the wizard site for years. I absolutely trust the math on that site, but in the past I found its "surveys" of different rules or available odds and games at various casinos to be out of date. So I suspect the wizard's site is in error regarding whether that wager is allowed in US casinos.
     
  11. Craps_Player

    Craps_Player Low-Roller

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    Yes. Quite true. I play in Australia as well as in England. I can assure you, they don’t have “place to lose” bets coupling numbers 6&8, 5&9 and 4&10. At least, they are not visible and not marketed on either locations where craps is played. Players will simply lay a number if they want to. So data on such sites seems outdated and confusing.
     
  12. vsop

    vsop Low-Roller

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    For the OP, I'm pretty sure a bettor CAN "Lay Place" any of the place bet numbers, including the point number and including the Come Out roll...it's just a matter of calling out "NO" (and the number you want to lay)...the minimum lay bet is typically an amount that results in the bettor winning at least $25 (less $1 on the min. bet).... so, you're laying $50 to win $25 (2:1) on a 4 or 10, $45 to win $30 (3:2) on a 5 or 9 or $30 to win $25 (6:5) on a 6 or 8...You win if a 7 is rolled before your lay number is rolled....you do not have make a Don't Pass bet to lay any number...
     
  13. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED The biggest Degenerate on VMB

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    Place and Place-to-lose are the same
    Just as
    Buy and Lay bets are the same
    6/8:
    place pays 7:6; place-to-lose pays 6:7
    buy & lay bets are not recommended as they are worse.
    5/9:
    place pays 7:5; place-to-lose pays 5:7
    Buy pays 3:2 (minus 5% vig); lay pays 2:3 (minus 5% vig)
    4/10:
    place pays 9:5; place-to-lose pays 5:9
    Buy pays 2:1 (minus 5% vig); lay pays 1:2 (minus 5% vig)


    Any questions?
     
  14. Crambone

    Crambone Gnaeus Pompey Magnus

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    <raises hand>
    Who offers the Place to Lose in Vegas?
    Where do they put the bet?
     
  15. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I made this wager in the past at Aria and Bellagio. The dealers placed the chips above the number (same place they put the chips for a don't come bet) and tilted the chips sideways to represent that I was laying the number
     
  16. Ben Jammin

    Ben Jammin VIP Whale

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    The reason there's no place to lose bet is that once you make you make the come out roll you have the advantage. You may take your bets down after the come out roll on the don't but not on the pass line bet. That's because the casino has THE ADVANTAGE on a pass line number.
    What makes the place bet (pass line side) so good is that you can make it any time, take it down, move it, add to it etc as you go and it's the norm to do this.
    Lay place is confusing to the dealers trying to figure the odds especially if it's an odd number payoff, such as with the 5 or 9. Lets say someone place bet to lose the 5 with a bet of $5. Can you calculate the odds on that? So most casinos just don't allow it.
    There may be some that will let you do it on the 6 and 8 but according to the Wizard's web site none in Las Vegas. A dealer may accommodate a good player, however it is not the norm to do so.
    Best is to lay buy the number and get better odds that way.
    The beauty of the don't side is that once you make the come out roll you have the advantage over the casino. You may then lay max odds to an advantage number. This is what the advantage player wants. I ought to know, I am one.
    Of course you can't beat the casino in the long run unless you cheat, which is all well and good if you like prison food. In Nevada cheating a casino is a Felony. So since when is it a crime against the United States of America to cheat a casino? That's a good question as other petty larceny crimes are misdemeanors, up to $650 in Nevada. Over that is a Felony, but one stinking dime in Nevada in a casino is PRISON TIME!
    Say it ain't so!
    So just bet the don't and say you did, and you'll be happy when that 7hits!
     
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  17. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    So how, exactly, are you an advantage player (assuming you aren't cheating)?
     
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  18. BYLee291

    BYLee291 Tourist

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    I think people are confusing place bets (7-6 on the 6/8, 7-5 on the 5/7, 9-5 on the 4/10) with buy/lay bets.(6-5 on the 6/8, 3-2 on the 5/7, 2-1 on the 4/10 minus 5% commission on the payout). A place bet can be rolled multiple times. You can't have a don't side place because the bet is resolved when the number is rolled or a 7 is. If a 7 is rolled, you win the bet, the shooter's roll is over, and all bets come down, so it can't stay up like a place bet. There is no way to don't place a $7 bet on the 6/8 to win $6, which is actually a better payout than the true odds because right side place payouts take out the house edge. You can only lay $6 to pay $5, minus the 5% commission, which becomes the house edge. The minimum commission is $1, which is why people usually buy/lay for at least $20. Otherwise, you just give a bigger edge. That's why there are so many big, shiny casinos all over. You only win at craps if you walk up to the table at the right time and the table is paying. You can't beat the math.

    Also, it's my understanding you can pick up don't pass odds, but you can't pick up a don't pass base bet. You can only move it to a passline bet. With DC's, though, you can call off the bet at any time. You can also wave it off and say "no action," for instance,,if a 6 or 8 is rolled on the initial DC roll.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
  19. Calder

    Calder High-Roller

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    No, you can pick up that base bet, whether it's a Don't Pass or Don't Come. That's exactly what's happening when you call 'no action' on a DC roll -- in effect you're picking up that No-6 or No-8.

    You have the same option with your Don't Pass bet. You can scoop it up anytime.

    The casino loves that move...
     
  20. flyguyfl

    flyguyfl VIP Whale

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    Such a simple game can get very complicated.
     
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