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Table Games The Death Of The Low Rolling Tables Player In Las Vegas

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Breeze147, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. IxAccDnf

    IxAccDnf VIP Whale

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    As I've posted before, my friends that go multiple times a year have cut back. My friends who would go once a year now skip years or have just stopped going. I don't know anyone who thinks this version of Vegas is better. If it works for you, carry on.
     
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  2. WichitaMuskie

    WichitaMuskie High-Roller

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    I've always been a once a year Vegas guy, so perhaps that skews my perception compared to others who go more frequently, but I think the current version of Vegas is just FAN-DAMN-TASTIC. Same as I felt in 1998 when I visited the first time. And the same as I felt in 2008. And in 2015. Is it "better" now than it was then? Not sure I'd say that necessarily, but I personally don't think it's worse. Just different.
     
    March Gladness
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  3. Raven888

    Raven888 Tourist

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    Vegas is still a cheap place to vacation. I'm a low roller, and I haven't paid a cent for a room the last two times I've gone thanks to comps. Not even the dreaded resort fee. And I'm a tiles player, which doesn't comp well compared to other games. So, free room, free booze, tons of delicious food options, cheap plane tickets... I am definitely not soured to Vegas just yet. Still one of my top vacation destinations.
     
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  4. mjames1229

    mjames1229 # of visits includes only trips w/ hotel stays

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    Two very key things you point out.

    This frustrates me on this board, and especially of my favorite podcasts,too, is that if gambling is an "entertainment" expense, then dammit, I want to have fun, regardless of the game I'm playing. Gambling is fun. Fun, I say, fun.

    I think a lot of that has to do with the short-attention span world we live in now. I have noticed myself getting away from table games more and more because sometimes it seems like work. Well, and those damn loud, shiny machines that are meticulously programmed and placed within the casino to attract that part of my brain that goes "Shiny things?!?!?!? Take me there!". Craps is consuming enough that I don't notice slots as much when I play, but when I do play BJ or Pai Gow Poker (either in LV or locally) I sit when its not my turn to act, or during a shuffle, etc, and hear a bonus game here or a bonus game there or a squeel of excitement somewhere, and frankly, it highlights some of the boredom - or grind - that comes with playing table games. Honestly, slot machines with all them pretty colors and lights are also significantly more entertaining than sitting next to a ring of smokers at a BJ table as they talk about Nascar or The Bachelor while I look down at another 5 versus a dealer K.

    Thanks for being cool with me calling out the potential hypocrisy within your post. I would hope you took it the right way, and it appears that you did.
     
    MJ's going to the Super Bowl (in Vegas)
    Watching wife bowl Women's Nationals
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  5. Scorcho

    Scorcho Tourist

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    I was a 2-3x strip visitor from 2004-2015. Now I'm a 1x visitor, having moved my other 1-2 trips to a locale that doesn't have an exorbitant resort fee, doesn't have triple-zero roulette or 6:5 BJ, has favorable VP paytables, doesn't charge me $9+tip for a domestic, doesn't have random venue fees at restaurants, doesn't have deathly slot payback %s, and so on.

    We've always been a number and not a customer to the major Vegas companies (and that's okay within reason), but it wasn't until the last handful of years that they were so blatant with their middle fingers towards us. This current version of Vegas sucks. And that's ignoring the fact that the de-theming of the strip has ripped all personality out of every single casino.
     
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  6. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    Which I assume is why you are seeing more places to eat, shop, shows and now football as "gambling" is losing its pull to Vegas.
     
  7. HoppinHardWays

    HoppinHardWays High-Roller

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    If you’re playing 10-12 hours a day on a $10 table then you need to explore Vegas more.
     
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  8. IxAccDnf

    IxAccDnf VIP Whale

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    Maybe that's how he enjoys Vegas. It's not uncommon for me to spend 10 + hours a day in a book, should I explore Vegas more?
     
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  9. Calder

    Calder High-Roller

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    Maybe on Top's 94th trip...
     
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  10. mescalita

    mescalita old and in the way...

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    Ha! I sometimes play 10-12 hours a day myself, like many of us from the casino desert of Texas. And I know from experience that Topcard does explore Vegas, including playing a variety of table games at a variety of casinos. Some of us can multi-task and see the sites, go to shows, hike Mt Charleston, and even have afternoon “naps” with the wife while also enjoying many hours at the tables....
     
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  11. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Actually, to be a bit more accurate, I probably average closer to about 8 hours a day playing blackjack, but not just at $10...my bets are varied... according to Golden Gate, my average bet is/was $18 hand.
    Even so, $18 x 8 hours x 3 days = $432 forfeit if I were to be foolish enough to play 6:5.

    My only point was that, sure, for the casual "1 or 2 hours a day", $5 player, I could see why they wouldn't care so much about 6:5. Most anyone else betting or playing more ought to care.

    As for my typical "grind" trips, I usually place my first bet of the day by 7AM, and my last bet of the day around midnight... so 17 hours.
    Subtract out time to eat, walking to various casinos, time spent playing craps, UTH or 3-card, Uber rides & side-trips to South Point or Gold Coast, then yeah - it might be as low as 8 hours a day actually playing blackjack... but I have plenty of gambling days where I know it's over that.
     
  12. sogi311

    sogi311 Low-Roller

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    What podcast are you speaking of?
     
    Sweet 16
  13. mjames1229

    mjames1229 # of visits includes only trips w/ hotel stays

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    Often, The Bettor Life (which I mostly enjoy) can make gambling sound like as much fun as doing taxes.

    I get that they are discussing maximizing comps and other strategies to improve EV (like taking advantage of sign-up promos through online sports books in NJ, for example). But they never talk about how much fun they actually have gambling. Tim is a don't pass player in craps because it is a teenier better play than the pass line, and he contacts his host to determine precisely how much gambling he has to do in what time frame to make sure he gets the full room comp. Eric is an AP-lite, in that he plays at a far higher level than most of us and has better access to far better promos, free play and rebates.

    But they never, ever discuss having FUN while gambling. And that is a bit disappointing, because although I know many of the games and the odds, sometimes just the adrenaline rush of a too-big bet or the out-of-nowhere big hand is the best part of a gambling session.
     
    MJ's going to the Super Bowl (in Vegas)
    Watching wife bowl Women's Nationals
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  14. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    It doesn't mean they aren't having fun. It means they find it fun to find edges, where you have fun in the risk and element of chance.
     
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  15. mjames1229

    mjames1229 # of visits includes only trips w/ hotel stays

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    Absolutely agree... The Bettor Life implies the fun in maximizing your efforts. But they never, ever SAY nor ACT like gambling is fun. The implication is that the fun is in the hunt.

    Not the actual gamble.

    And based on the last show of 2019, Eric no longer finds the juice worth the squeeze... his admission that he doesn't enjoy chasing the comps as there are less and less to chase, meaning that he isn't actually having any fun doing it.
     
    MJ's going to the Super Bowl (in Vegas)
    Watching wife bowl Women's Nationals
  16. GeorgeJ.

    GeorgeJ. High-Roller

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    I still go to Vegas 4X a year but I don't play at the Strip casinos very often.

    The locals joints are still Old School Vegas with lower table minimums and better paybacks on the slots.
     
  17. Breeze147

    Breeze147 Button Man

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    Yes, well, in response to several posters, everyone has a tale about finding great pay tables and Blackjack rules out on the Boulder Highway or North Las Vegas.

    The question for ME, and ME alone is, do I want to fly 3,000 miles in a flying cattle car for the privilege of then driving out of my way to find a low minimum table, watching what I drink because I am going to have to rent a car (another expense) and drive there?

    The resounding answer is hell no, if I want to do that there are at least 15 casinos within a 4 hour drive, some less than 2 hours from where I live, without having to deal with airline delays, a lot of people who are just plain jerkoffs (no other word for them) on said airlines. At least I get Express check-in at MLife hotels now.

    I don't get comped nights. I get half-price nights disguised as comps.

    I don't have hosts that I have to worry about getting a gift. I don't even get a free buffet breakfast.

    So what's the point?

    You know, most people get those comps by pumping thousands of dollars through the casino. I know enough about variance to know that they are losing quite a bit of those thousands. Maybe it's me. Maybe I just don't get how to manipulate the system. Maybe I just don't have thousands of dollars to splash around.

    This is all comparing apples to elephant shit and the elephants are eating the apples in order to shit.

    So be it. Nothing lasts forever.

    Maybe now I'll finally get that chance to drive to Maine and get a lobster that was just caught. Go to Key West to see the sunset. Spend a week at the Shore. Who knows?
     
  18. csu

    csu Tourist

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    All of this is a bit misleading. These games are all negative expectation anyway, so if one claims the long-term EV (which is longer term than what you're referring to) of 3:2 versus 6:5 has that much of an impact, well you're going to lose money either way. I understand we all say that gambling is a form of entertainment (it is), but no one would play a game in which they were told up front that they were absolutely guaranteed to lose. Yes, find the best game/rules you can within the confines of what you want in a trip, but shifting a few percentage points of house edge either way doesn't really matter over sessions or even trips. If you won, it was because variance was on your side and not because the house edge was 2% instead of 5%.
     
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  19. pressitagain

    pressitagain VIP Whale

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    You will be back....once they get their hooks in you....
     
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  20. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Actually, 0.5% instead of 2%.
    ...and, for those who take their blackjack seriously, that 0.5% house edge can flip over to a comparable player advantage...an advantage that vanishes on a 6:5 table, no matter how disciplined you may be.
    Just sayin'...
    :beer:
     
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