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Table Games Tell me your experiences playing Ultimate Texas Holdem

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by rycelover, Oct 12, 2016.

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  1. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

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    nevermind I goofed
     
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  2. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

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    The average player does play this game terribly, I agree. But that is good - it helps pay for them to offer a game with a very playable house edge that is pretty easy to play.
     
  3. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    Agree on this. Most people are shocked I am raising with ace 2.

    It is one of the few games the dealers,rarely know strategy too
     
  4. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

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    the average dealer has no clue on strategy, I agree.
     
  5. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED Comps on my account, or blood on my knife.

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    Casinos aren’t as stupid as you think..they are only comping you based off your Ante & Play...not Raise...so if you’re playing $5 or $10, you’re only being rated for $10 or $20...
    So the people who play this game badly are straight up getting the Ajax.
     
  6. topcard

    topcard Vegas Has Re-Opened!

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    I've had dealers repeatedly chastise me for 4x-ing A-2 or K-8... I just chuckle & tell them, "Hey - it's the only way I have a chance to beat this game.", (or something along those lines.)
    ...and, yeah, dealer-error can easily make this an EV+ game, but I've noticed that the dealers are getting better than they were the first couple of years after the game came out, so those errors (in the players' favor) are less common.

    I do play the trips bet these days... it hits often enough that it's not all that bad for a sucker-bet... & it sure is great when the board has trips, flush, straight or quads & you have a 3-5 in the hole. Even when you fold, you still get paid!

    I've talked with several pits & hosts about the rating issues...most will agree that it ought to be rated on Ante+Blind+Trips+2x ante.
    A host at GG once told me that they rate it: Ante+Blind+Trips+1xAnte.
    Not sure if that's still the case or not... perhaps @Timothy Miller can weigh in on this!
     
  7. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    One dealer even told me "I play hold em all the time, I'd never raise with an A2"

    [emoji2357]
     
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  8. killswamper23

    killswamper23 Low-Roller

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    Actually casinos in many cases are extremely stupid/lazy

    I get comped less than if I played the side bets
    But I have gotten over comped every time I've played bc they're comping based on a much higher theoretical than the 2.5ish % edge they have if someone uses the optimal strategy
    I've gotten comped at anywhere from a 15-25 percent house edge which makes sense bc most people are playing at that size of a disadvantage and pit bosses don't even know proper strategy

    Compare that to something like blackjack where the vast majority of pit bosses know correct basic strategy or close to it so it's hard to be overcomped

    You're correct that I'm only being rated off of my initial bet (which is what the theretical is based on) but they use way too high a number for the house edge if you're playing correctly
     
  9. Craps_Player

    Craps_Player Low-Roller

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    I played this game principally on a recent cruise (no Craps table...). It was so infuriating to lose on AA and AK and QQ with 4x raise, and it happened often, only to win with 4-7 offsuit with apparent ease on the River! The truth probably is that I didn’t count every hand, but the bankroll takes a big hit if you raise 7 times in a row only to lose every hand.

    This member thread is undoubtedly right. Most don’t know the optimal way of playing this game, but when the dealer is consistently beating the table with cards like 9-4 or 8-6 and producing straights and flushes every other hand, it gets expensive real quick.

    I definitely would have lost much less had I not played the trips so aggressively (falling into the gambler fallacy of “I’m due a hand”). However for the first 5 nights of my cruise (from 10 nights), I was actually even. The game can keep you well entertained if you play consistently, and the comps do rack up over that time. I think like many other table
    Games, when you hit a run of winning hands, get the hell out of there!

    It is a good game and you meet more interesting people. It’s definitely fun to watch how other players bet as you see their cards. And yes, K-7 offsuit was never backed with a raise during my cruise except by me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
  10. Timothy Miller

    Timothy Miller Casino Host

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    I truly wish i could weigh in on it. I have found table games to be so wonderfully inconsistent among casinos. Then when i talk to pitbosses or lower and ask them about rating systems they all give me different answers that i can only really assume the industry as a whole both does a poor job in explaining how to rate as well as training how to rate and then individual casinos " fix " the standardized rating system. (( This is legit just my opinion based on observation of a very limited set ))
     
  11. topcard

    topcard Vegas Has Re-Opened!

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    I would think, at the very least, the ante, blind, any trips bets + a 1-unit 'Play' bet would be used for rating.
    I've heard the argument that the 'Play' bet isn't rated because it's EV+. I don't buy that argument... sure, of course it is (overall) an EV+ bet for the player, but it's way-more than offset by the huge advantage the house has with the blind bet.
    Of course, if they rate it at a 20-25% HE, as @killswamper23 pointed out, that would offset the under-rating of just the ante & blind (and trips, if one plays it).

    But I've played an awful lot of UTH downtown - as in 5 or 6 hours a day for 3 days - and my offers have not only not improved, they've reduced.
    I like to play 10-10-5, (ante-blind-trips) but when I go on a bad a run, I'll drop that to 5-5-5, or even just 5-5.
    Still - I'm consistently averaging about $35 a hand at risk in UTH... $25 blackjack seems to rate higher, and that makes no sense to me at all.
     
  12. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    Numbers wise no but hands per hour comes into play. A full table of uth moves at a snails pace compared to BJ in terms of hands per hour. That has to be part of that equation
     
  13. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

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    Even at 21 it is true - the pace of play at a full table is <50% of what it is at a 1-2 player table in terms of hands per hour for the player
     
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  14. topcard

    topcard Vegas Has Re-Opened!

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    Yeah....I forgot about # of events per session factoring into the rating...
    I figure I usually get about 30 UTH hands an hour x $35 at risk each hand...$1050...but, x 2.5% HA = $26.25/hour.
    With blackjack, that would be more like 80 hands an hour x $25 at risk each hand...$2000....x 0.4% HA = $8/hour.

    So, something's still not right...or I'm missing something else.
     
  15. yube baroke

    yube baroke Tourist

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    I’m sure I’ve mentioned this here before, but I’ve play UTH a lot and have experienced every sort of good luck and every sort of bad luck in this game. This was one game where I sought to learn the strategy right away, and very early in my play. As many others, I used to get funny looks and comments about my “aggressive” play...and I used to think most players were “stupid” and “morons”. However, now, when someone comments at my play, I just smile and say, I’m a crazy guy and I like to gamble. I don’t try to tell people how to play, unless they specifically ask me. And most importantly, I don’t like to call other lesser knowledgeable UTH players, stupid or morons anymore. Sure, some of not many truly believe they are playing the best way to play the game. However, they are not me and have no impact on my enjoyment or bankroll. Personally, I have come to believe that most people play casually and they find UTH to be fun and when played not so aggressively, the bankroll can actually last quite a bit of time, without huge swings. I think most people do not want the extreme volatility that comes with playing perfect strategy. If you play perfect strategy and haven’t felt a straight nose dive session, or a rocket like launch winning session, you haven’t played enough. I think most casual players don’t bring the bankroll to sustain the variance of perfect play. A bad session of perfect play will end your gambling day much faster than an average session of sub-optimal play, just due to the volatility. I don’t play marathon sessions anymore, because of the swings in this game. Instead, I play much bigger base bets than I used to and play short and fast. I hope for a string of winning hands and bounce. As long as I don’t tilt and stick to my bankroll management, for the hit and run seasions, I will never leave completely felted...unless I happen to lose every hand for the mini session, which is possible, but hopefully I pick up and leave before then.
     
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  16. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    You're using the incorrect numbers.

    The 2.5% HA number factors in the ante, blind, and play bets for a solid player (optimal house edge is only 2.185% of an ante).

    So when you're playing 10 blind/ante and 5 on trips on an 8/6/5 paytable, your theo looks closer to this.

    30 hands/hr x $10 ante/hand x 2.5% theo/ante bet + 30 hands/hr x $5 trips/hand x 1.9% theo/trips bet = $10.35 theo/hr.
     
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  17. wormhole

    wormhole VIP Whale

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    I I usually don't play perfect strategy just for the volatility reasons you mentioned. When asked why, I just tell the person I don't want too, especially if things are not going well. I don't like people telling me how to play my hands at any game, and, unfortunately, have gotten nasty a couple of times when some one kept harping on how I play my hands. Those instances happened at my local, and I think I surprised the dealer and a couple of the regulars who had never seen me get upset at the table. I left a table once because some guy kept pushing the issue and I did not want to loose my temper.
     
  18. TIMSPEED

    TIMSPEED Comps on my account, or blood on my knife.

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    Damn man, can you punch out my numbers too?
    $25 all around (ante/blind/trips) with perfect play and 8/6/5 Trips Paytable.
    Curious if the comps could at least be EQUAL to the theo (and add in a dealer mistake an...HOUR? would that wipe away the house edge)
     
  19. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    It's $33 an hour before a dealer error. As far as dealer errors go, that's harder to quantify as their value is based on the error made. I would need to know what kind of errors you are seeing.
     
  20. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

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    A dealer error could massively outweigh this. I played about ~10 hours of ult in LV at an average bet of $10 ante & blind + perfect basic play bets of the 4x/2x/1x bet.

    Dealer errors exceeded $300 for me. An error could be:

    - Paying me when I should have lost (happened a few times, including a couple of times where I had 4x bets)
    - Paying the ante when they don't pair (this happens a lot - some dealers will literally never push the ante back. In theory, since you fold some hands that you disproportionately lose, you don't want to correct these dealers.)
    - I got paid 3 to 1 once instead of 3 to 2 on a flush on my blind

    Also saw them pay 8x instead of 4x on a straight once on the trips for someone else, so somehow they can mispay the bets that they have to look up every single time

    I think the errors are least common on the blind and on the trips bets, as they consistently look up what those should pay. In fact, I think the dealer errors tend to hurt on the blinds, as they sometimes forget to pay those unless you tell them to do so.

    I see good dealers who basically never make a mistake, and then I see dealers who consistently misread hands, with the most common mistake probably being missing when they have a flush in their hand. I've also seen dealers miss straights, pay straights that didn't exist, and have trouble with 3 pair hands and 2 pair + kicker hands.

    I absolutely believe there are dealers where I am running +EV. The main problem with these situations is other players who cannot shut their mouths.
     
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