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Table Games Tell me I'm wrong! Video vs table BJ

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by hotreds, Dec 9, 2016.

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  1. hotreds

    hotreds Illegitimi non carborundum!

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    I was astounded at the dealer results in my latest foray into the video blackjack. I keep reading how these machines( the ones with the buxom dealers portrayed on a big screen) are similar in results to tables. However, I paid attention to the cards, and even though it is all chance, it sure seems these results are a bit fishy:

    5% of all dealer hands were 21s, both BJ and later
    60% of the dealer hidden cards were 10s. Dealer had 20 about 40% of the time
    About 15% of dealer 21s were 5, 6 and even 7 cards.
    About 40% of my double downs were aces and twos.
    30% of my losses were by one point.
    Dealer rarely busted. ( 10%) Even with 16, she drew 3, 4, or 5 75% of the time.
    Figure I played about 3000 hands.

    And so on. I've had people tell me that the tables are just as harsh, could anyone here confirm this? I like the fact that I'm not bothering those real pro BJ players when I take my time looking at my cheat card for some of the suggested plays with certain cards. I find it more relaxing than playing at a table with other players sneering at you in disgust. BUT, if, in fact, the video machines are "rigged," perhaps I'll just have to swallow hard and go to the tables. Any comments and suggestions would be most appreciated!
     
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  2. merlin

    merlin MIA

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    It's rigged, I would not ever play "seriously" on those things. Those things could and certainly would happen at real tables, but it wouldn't last forever, and 3000 hands is a very large sample. How much did you lose in that time?

    Nothing wrong with practicing that way while learning, after that many hands you should be ready for the real thing. Very few tables have everybody playing perfectly, as long as your "mistakes" are infrequent you shouldn't be heckled at all.
     
  3. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    You are throwing a lot of percentages out there, but also the word "about" a lot.

    Did you actually track this hand by hand, or are these guesstimates?

    I'm pretty sure they are not allowed to "rig" the card outcomes of the machines, and that doing so could cause a stink with the gaming commission. The math of the game is already in their favour, and you can't count cards or run other cheats on a machine. So there is no real reason to rig it. I am guessing you just had a bad run. Of course, the rules on some of those machines can be pretty bad some places, and that would not help.
     
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  4. blackjacker2

    blackjacker2 Low-Roller

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    I can't comment on the actual programming of these BJ machines, but you play enough live blackjack and you will get runs just like you describe. I play a lot of blackjack and I posted recently where head to head on a new shoe I lost 20 straight hands - figure that. Recently, thankfully when only practising, the dealer pulls an 8 card 18 (4, Ace, Ace, 7, Ace, Ace, Ace, 2) when I'm standing on 13 against the dealer 4, it I happens, so you have to a longer term view. That said, I totally distrust playing BJ on those machines and never play. I'm with Nevyn though, I'm sure they cannot rig these games - but of course we don't have to play them either.
     
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  5. bjpcyclone

    bjpcyclone High-Roller

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    You are wrong. :) The video BJ machines have the same HA as the table games with the same rules.

    People tend to remember the times the dealer drew to 21 much, much more than they do the time the dealer busts with a 6 showing like they are "supposed" to do.
     
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  6. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I don't know. Your sample size really isn't that large. That said, 3000 hands on one of those machines should have taken you approximately fifty hours to play (I watch my gf play those occasionally and it drives me nuts how slow they are) and by your percentages, that's 150 dealer 21s or BJs in fifty hours, or about three an hour. I can tell you that is not at all unusual. For example, I played a live shoe two nights ago where I hit four blackjacks in half an hour. Then yesterday, I played a shoe where the dealer hit BJ or drew to 21 six times in about 20 minutes.
     
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  7. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    My understanding is, per state law in Nevada, such machines must use a purely random distribution, using standard 52-card decks...and are not allowed to use prior results to determine any upcoming outcome... now, simulators on-line are not governed by such rules, but if you were actually playing one of these in a Nevada casino, then you just had a bad run.
    I never play them, but I trust that the machines themselves are legitimate & not rigged.
    Like others, I've had bad runs at tables...many times over the years. It happens.
    The good thing about table-play is the ability to easily move to another table.

    It makes no logical or mathematical sense, but I can "feel" when a table is ice-cold for me...usually after a few dozen hands. I move when I get that feeling.
     
    Booked! El-Co on December 3rd!
  8. Nittany1

    Nittany1 VIP Whale

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    They are probably set that way in Nevada and NJ.
    The software exists to program higher number of wins for the dealer and it is not very complex.
    Anecdotal evidence of a few hundred hands is insignificant.
    If you are playing on the robo dealer machines in tribal casinos or other states you are probably not getting the same HA as you do in Las Vegas.
     
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  9. hotreds

    hotreds Illegitimi non carborundum!

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    Thank-you for the replies. I did not write down every result, just kept a mental picture. This was in Atlantic City. Interestingly, I practice a whole lot online, and the results I get are totally dissimilar to the machines in the casino- however it's not real money so perhaps you win more often to entice you to play with real money at the casino! I actually do have basic strategy down fairly well, with the exception of the ace hands. Perhaps I should try to find a table with no one, or a few friendly looking souls and see what kinda luck I have at an actual table. One thing I was told is that the machines do have "better" rules such as dealer standing on 17 and surrender option. I actually use the latter quite a lot- anytime I get a 15 or 16 vs a 7 or more for the dealer, which seems to happen a lot! Oh, yes, I did lose close to a grand.
     
  10. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Hey Reds, not trying to be critical, but it doesn't sound like you're that close to having basic strategy down if you are always surrendering your 15s against 7s and 8s. Get BS down pat. Or heck, just carry a BS card to the table with you. And then give the live table a shot. More often than not, you will find friendly players. And if you end up at a table with some sour players, just move on to the next table. Good luck!!
     
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  11. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    They were probably targeting you. It wouldn't have mattered what you played, you were going to lose big...they were out to get you.
     
  12. flyguyfl

    flyguyfl VIP Whale

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    I have played both and I think the machines are equable as far as odds. The tables offer other adventures like the lady next to me rubbing my knee.
     
  13. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

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    Usually IF.... and that is a big if, you can find the busty bj game that pays 3:2, they are often a lot better rules, esp for low rollers than on the floor. Most have surrender and DAS.

    Sadly a lot of the strip ones are 6:5.
     
  14. hotreds

    hotreds Illegitimi non carborundum!

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    Point taken. I do not follow the basic strategy there at all. Perhaps I should! I do have the BS card with me at all times, I simply chose to surrender when I had a 15 or 16 vs 7 or more to the dealer. The BS has you hit, but the few times I did this( for a change of pace, I invariably busted. So I just returned to surrendering.) You're right, I should see how I do at a table- I reckon the more you play at a table, the more comfortable you'll feel doing so. I guess bottom line there is no way to prove a rigged machine- or even a rigged table for that matter! You pays your money and takes your chances! I appreciate your response Mr. Wildcat fan!
     
  15. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Well, a "fair" machine in AC would have only ONE of his claims (the dealer's hole card being a ten point card 60% of the time) over 3,000 hands should occur at a rate of 1 in...

    7,090,800,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

    It would be easier to win Powerball 28 times in a row with just one ticket. So if these statistics are true and the gaming commission isn't crooked, this is probably the easiest case they'll ever have. A casino would have to be the stupidest casino in the world to let this event happen unless they want to get punished. There are many other sly ways to shave the casino's house edge from 1% to say 10% and would be a lot harder to get caught...
     
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  16. hotreds

    hotreds Illegitimi non carborundum!

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    Guess I need to get a Powerball ticket!
     
  17. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I know, there are some aspects of BS that drive me nuts and make me wonder why I am supposed to split (or hit, stand, etc.). I can't stand splitting 8s against a dealer 10, but I trust the math. Whenever you have a 15 or 16, you're not in a great mathematical position no matter what you do. But stick with BS to make the play that is the lesser of two evils
     
  18. merlin

    merlin MIA

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    If you understand basic strategy you need to understand that you need to follow it, saying I tried that and busted so I'm not gonna do it any more, is foolish.
     
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  19. hotreds

    hotreds Illegitimi non carborundum!

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    Roger!
     
  20. RebelDiceMan

    RebelDiceMan High-Roller

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    Because this study took place in AC, I would be more inclined to believe that the machines are legit. The are regulated by a reputable gaming commission. I would be a lot more leery of a similar machine in some tribal casinos where the tribal gaming commission is the only regulatory body overseeing things.
     
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