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Slots Slot machine payout determined when?

Discussion in 'Slots' started by Ten_On_The_End, Mar 24, 2020.

  1. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Why do say this is wrong?
     
  2. Eleven99isFine

    Eleven99isFine High-Roller

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    Because someone is shocked that people win money there.
     
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  3. Michael Bluejay

    Michael Bluejay Tourist

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    I have a table on my site showing typical returns by state, but also comparing it to the state-mandated minimum, showing that actual returns typically blow way past the minimum. (And I link to American Casino Guide for those who want the casino-by-casino rundown, where it's available.) I'm not allowed to post a link to my site
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2020
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  4. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Even with a 90% payback, lots of people will walk away with nothing.

    Not unlike many of my trips to Blackjack tables with only a few percent casino take - I still walk away with nothing many times. LOL!
     
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  5. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    I think M is a lifetime winner at Rivers. Lol The sample size is tiny though. But playing ~90% payback games over and over certainly makes it difficult to win.
     
  6. Michael Bluejay

    Michael Bluejay Tourist

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    Ain't that the truth! Back when I counted cards, with the odds *in my favor*, I could still easily lose a few thousand an hour. Knowing I was a long-term winner made that sting only a little less.

    On my to-do list is to create a calculator to show your chances of having a net win or a net loss after x hours of play on various games.
     
  7. Ten_On_The_End

    Ten_On_The_End High-Roller

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    That is word, right there. Man, you need to post more often. Thanks.
     
  8. bugfinder72

    bugfinder72 Tourist

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    How does the hitting the spin button again to 'stop the reels' play in here? It always seems like they almost stop immediately, but I am not so naive to believe that I've affected the outcome by stopping them. I do feel like whether I let them play out or stop them, the outcome would be the same; but how does the machine result shown to you deal with that? Seems like on the digital machines it would be much easier to make it seem like the reels just stopped and didn't change to the predetermined RNG outcome, but how do the physical reel machines do it?
    How does the hitting the spin button again to 'stop the reels' play in here? It always seems like they almost stop immediately, but I am not so naive to believe that I've affected the outcome by stopping them. I do feel like whether I let them play out or stop them, the outcome would be the same; but how does the machine result shown to you deal with that? Do the reels always spin in some form of what you are going to win at all times?
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2020
  9. Michael Bluejay

    Michael Bluejay Tourist

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    That's a good question. The answer is that it seems like you stop the reels instantaneously, but you don't really. The symbol that the RNG chose when you pressed the button the first time, is never more than a fraction of a second away from the middle payline. That symbol is what's gonna land whether you press the stop button or not.
     
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  10. Eleven99isFine

    Eleven99isFine High-Roller

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    I think that when there is a reference to "press the button", it means when money is being wagered (ie, when you hit spin and your bet is subtracted from your total coins). Hitting the button while the reels are spinning may stop the reels but that doesn't mean it's a new wager, and thus not subject to all of the rules aforementioned.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2020
  11. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    The machine knows when it's in different modes, like "waiting for spin (ie. idle)," "middle of a spin," and "paying out the win".

    So you can "stop" the reels in the middle of a spin, and when a payout starts, you can make it go straight to the end.

    When you hit the button on a slot in the middle of a spin it doesn't stop it instantly, it just stops each reel the next time the determined symbol is on the payline, and maybe speeds that up.

    On video slots, it's not that hard to see, either you can see the speed on the reels or boom, they skip the illusion and the whole screen just immediately changes to the final result. On physical reels, I really never do it, so I can't work from memory on that as far as the reels spinning faster. Physical reels spin pretty fast anyway. This is how @Michael Bluejay put it:

     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
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  12. zignerlv

    zignerlv VIP Whale

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    Whenever a topic like this comes up on this board, you know many people will be posting what they THINK is the answer, in trying to be helpful, but without the knowledge to really correctly answer it. (Personally, I find those 'answers' counterproductive) So, your response, while citing your background and statues, is very refreshing! Thank you!
     
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  13. Ruark

    Ruark Low-Roller

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    Yeah some people don't understand how payout percentages work. Say the payout is 90%. At $1 per spin, you could:

    Win 90 cents every spin.

    Win nothing for 9,999 spins, then $9,000 on the 10,000th spin.

    In both cases, the payout is 90%.

    Of course, that 90% is a mathematical average over millions of spins. You could win that $9,000 on the 1st spin instead of the 10,000th. That's why you can lose your shirt (or win a fortune) on a "loose" game.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
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  14. zoobrew

    zoobrew High-Roller

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    We are taught about Mean, Median, and Mode at school when we learn about averages, but only Mean is remember by 99% of the people.
    I am pretty sure the mode for slot spins is zero.
    The median is below the mean payout for slots, how much depends on the variance of the slot machine.
    I always thought median was more important when talking about people or money. Especially true when there is no cap on how high a number can go.
     
  15. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    I'm sure that's partially because of how they explained HA on those old Travel Channel shows. They never mentioned variance.

    So people in their heads include positive variance (unknowingly) but not negative. They go "I might win $5,000, or I might lose 10%."
     
  16. Barcuss

    Barcuss Low-Roller

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    I see from reading the percentages from this link that the casinos in N. Las Vegas seem to payback better and in some cases much better than the Strip or Downtown area. What casinos are considered N. Las Vegas?
     
  17. Ruark

    Ruark Low-Roller

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    Places like Jerry's Nugget, Santa Fe Station, etc.
     
  18. Ruark

    Ruark Low-Roller

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    And that's the key. Payout percentages are virtually meaningless. Regardless of overall payback, a low-variance slot will have smaller, but more, up and down swings. So you try to play until you hit an upswing and walk away with a little money. But I think most people just keep playing, going for the Big Kahuna, and lose it all. (hey, I can't throw the first stone there!)
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020
  19. Michael Bluejay

    Michael Bluejay Tourist

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    I have a list of Las Vegas casinos on my site, organized geographically (including the ten North Vegas casinos).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2020
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  20. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    The part about jackpots being only a small portion of the total payback % was interesting. I thought it would be higher.

    What would you say about this:
    • Two machines of the same game
    • Same payback %
    • Machine A top line is 800 credits
    • Machine B top line is 4000 credits
    • Rest of the paytable is identical
    In that situation, which would you say is most likely:

    Machine A top line probability is 5 times that of Machine B
    or
    Probability of the jackpot combo is the same for both machines, so more of the payback % is tied up in the jackpot on Machine B (and so fewer hits on the lower amounts)
    or
    Probability of top line jackpot hitting is the same for both machines, so on Machine A the lower rungs on the paytable hit more often
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2020