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Several friends going together. Best strategy for end of stay comps?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by philculp, Nov 13, 2016.

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  1. philculp

    philculp Low-Roller

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    I booked an offer for a free suite at NYNY in February. Includes fp and 200 fb. I haven't been to Vegas for over a year, but me and some friends wanted to go for the super bowl. The plan is for all of us to just charge everything to the room, a couple of the guys it would be their first trip. Would it be wise (or even allowed) for all of us to use my player card while playing for max comp at the end and better offers down the road for a repeat visit? If they use their own, will they look at all of the play together when considering the comp at the end? My friends agreed to it since I got the suite for everyone. My personal play will be about half of what it was on my last couple visits so I'm trying to just ensure I don't lose my offers down the road and we get as much off at the end as possible. Thanks in advance!
     
  2. DJ Ran

    DJ Ran High-Roller

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    I personally wouldn't chance any more than one other person playing on the same card. Husbands and wives to it all the time. Your offers are based on your last handful of trips, not a single trip. Having several friends playing on different cards will not help one bit with comps on the back end.
     
  3. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    You really have two questions here:

    • Combining play on different accounts for back-end comps
    • Multiple players playing on the same card

    I think I have seen accounts here where in similar situations to what you're describing, a casino did consider all the play of people who were not related, when granting back end comps on a single trip. Someone else will have to weigh in on that definitively. I believe in those cases, the play was done on separate cards, it's easy enough to look them all up.

    As far as multiple people playing on the same account, I think once you get past 2, you're pushing it. It's easily detectable.

    I think what I would do is hit the MLife desk (or a host) when you get there and get an answer to the first question. If they greenlight it, then at least you'll have some coverage for backend, and you still can probably have 2 of your own cards in use at any given time (on slots at least) to protect your offers (give the 2nd card to whoever is the highest player other than yourself).

    If you try to use more than two of your own cards at the same time, I think you run the risk of getting caught and screwing both your backend and your future offers.

    I think at tables, you might be able to do a workaround by buying in for 2 spots and having a buddy play one, but this probably works better for a husband/wife situation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
  4. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Pretty sure all future offers will be tied to each players card account. (two cards on the same account are still one account)

    The OP got suite, 200 FB and some freeplay (how much might help a bit).

    If you are already about to play half as much, I am guessing you are not going to see any additional back end comps on your play.
     
  5. IM ALL IN

    IM ALL IN High-Roller

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    And if someone is playing slots with your card and gets a W2? Or a 1042-S? Friends of mine (married) use two cards each, one in his name, one in hers but they use his to play tables and hers to play slots. That way they get invited to the slot tourneys as well as bj tourneys. And it's okay if either gets a W2.
     
  6. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    Yeah, you do have to consider and have a plan for this. If you're going with someone who doesn't go much and is using your card, if they hit a handpay, you're going to want to slip in there and take the W-2 because you presumably have some losses to offset it, and it's also going to go on your W/L statement.
     
  7. FuzzyDiceCraps

    FuzzyDiceCraps High-Roller

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    Just to piggy-back on the W-2G discussion, I wouldn't just slip in there and take it. The card in the machine doesn't affect who gets the W2-G (can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if it did with all the cards left in machines and left laying around). Although the win/loss statement will reflect it, those are not admissible in a tax audit or investigation, so I wouldn't be too concerned about that. If you're writing off gambling losses, you need to keep better records than your win/loss report.

    The thing with taking the W2-G is that you are assuming a tax liability on behalf of your friend, which may seem ok at the time, but come tax filing you may feel differently about it. Or option 2 is you take the W2-G and then give your friend the winnings less taxes, which could rub your friend the wrong way.

    If you have friends that bet at a denomination where a W2G is possible, I would recommend having the conversation with them before-hand just to ensure you're all on the same page.
     
    First time Downtown! Craps, sportsbets and DRINKS!!!
  8. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    Yeah I didn't really address that correctly. You shouldn't just slip in and take the W-2g. You DO need to consider the effect that having that handpay on your W/L will cause.

    But I would disagree with the statement that W/L statements are not admissible, they're perfectly good documentation, especially for a casual gambler who has a handful of W2g a year. No casual gambler keeps any kind of meticulous logs except for their own geeky entertainment (like me). I keep track of stuff during a trip, on scratch pad paper, but I ditch it all at the end of a trip. You can dummy up a fake log in a couple of hours; for a casual player a casino W/L is much more "solid" evidence than a log.

    If we're talking about numbers in the low 5 figures in W2s and it doesn't represent a large % of your gross income, first I wouldn't be worried about getting audited and second I wouldn't be worried about using W/Ls to justify write offs. I'll admit I'm thinking primarily about my own experience though.
     
  9. FuzzyDiceCraps

    FuzzyDiceCraps High-Roller

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    I agree completely Chuck that for a small gambler there's very little risk of audit and its easy to create a dummy log. However, there are numerous tax cases that state a win/loss record is not sufficient. You need more. The win/loss report gives you a great starting point, and Chuck is completely correct that for the majority of us its a moot point and not worth fretting over.

    However, for a taxpayer who may not have a lot of gambling, but has other factors making them an audit risk, these issues can just create additional headaches should an audit arise.

    I only say that because I'm a tax attorney who has a significant practice representing individuals that enjoy gambling in front of state and federal tax authorities. In my experience those win/loss records aren't worth the paper they're printed on in front of the tax commissioner if they want to make a case out of it.

    The risk is low, but its why I don't advise taking on additional tax liabilities (especially those that get reported to the IRS) lightly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2016
    First time Downtown! Craps, sportsbets and DRINKS!!!
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  10. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    1 - There are number of long discussions here are the card and W-2. You will find many examples including me that had a different card in when they hit the handpay. Just hand YOUR players card and ID to the slot attendant. No issue at all.

    2 - Documentation - again lots of discussions. What the IRS regs say and what they will accept appear to be very different depending on the particular situation. And of course, if you are never audited for your reported losses, none of it matters at all.

    3 - As to which players account the actual win will roll up to - not sure about that. If you have as much losses as most folks, it would not matter anyways. I am thinking you could a W2 could to one account and win/loss go to another depending on the systems.
     
  11. h0und10

    h0und10 VIP Whale

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    What I have done in the past is each play on own card, but have everyone's name on the room. The way i understand it is than everyone can play for back end comps and everyone's comps all chip in at your total bill.
     
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  12. philculp

    philculp Low-Roller

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    Thank you for the replies. My free play is $150. We will probably be doing mostly table play this trip though. However, the slots always seem to pull me in late at night.

    It sounds like my best course of action will be put everyone's name on the room and talk to a host to let them know the plan. If they can't combine the end of stay comp I'll just use mine and the other biggest player with my card and I'll buy that spot in. Everyone else on their own. I def didn't consider the tax implications. I'm not too worried about it but I can see how it could pose an issue with hand pays. Although, that would be a nice problem to have.... we'd be fine with that problem several times
     
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  13. IM ALL IN

    IM ALL IN High-Roller

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    I have seen $3.25 max play on 2nd pull on a slot bring $8000 dollars..but that was on a cruise ship a year ago..(totally unusual for a cruise casino) So no W2, no 1042-S (I'm Cdn)...but I agree. You will work with any hand pay problems you can get! Good luck and have a great time with all your people.
     
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