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Table Games Ricochet poker coming to Vegas

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Johnny Bollocks, Sep 11, 2021.

  1. Johnny Bollocks

    Johnny Bollocks Never mind the Bollocks...

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    https://wizardofodds.com/video/ricochet-poker/

    Apparently this is being put in play at Binion's - I guess this will be the first Vegas installation. I had never heard of this before yesterday and can't find any detail on house edge anywhere.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. RedRiverRose

    RedRiverRose VIP Whale

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    I love carnival games but I am confused already. It's very different. Will wait and see if it catches on. I said the same thing years ago about High Card Flush and now it's almost everywhere. Thanks for the info.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Johnny Bollocks

    Johnny Bollocks Never mind the Bollocks...

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    I downloaded a rules page off the web, once you get a grasp of how it works, it's pretty simple. It's somewhat unique in that you're not JUST competing against the house, you're also competing against the other players at the table. Each hand, the pot is awarded to one person, either a player or the dealer. I wouldn't even know how to start calculating the house edge on this, hopefully the Wiz will do so soon, considering it's now showing up downtown.
     
  4. Bumpywx

    Bumpywx Low-Roller

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    I'm imagining the house edge must come, at least in part, from the fact that the dealer doesn't have to pay an additional unit to see the remaining 3 cards, but the players each do. This makes me wonder if the house edge is then, partially predicated on the number of players at the table, or if the dealer fold rules mitigate that somehow.
     
  5. pirviii

    pirviii Low-Roller

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    This does remind me of no-peek poker we play sometimes, but with 7 cards and the bet comes after the player sees their cards.
     
  6. Johnny Bollocks

    Johnny Bollocks Never mind the Bollocks...

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    It's definitely that. They do pay out some multiples on bigger hands, so I'm sure that the edge comes from players folding, the fact that the majority of each pot won is coming from the other players rather than the house, and the side bets. I just can't even begin to calculate it. I don't even know if it's possible on the main pot because it's so heavily predicated on the action of each player.
     
  7. Johnny Bollocks

    Johnny Bollocks Never mind the Bollocks...

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    Another musing I had on this... wouldn't it be essential that all players played the same amount of $ in the main pot? I assume the side bets won't have the same limitations, but I would guess there has to be a fixed wager amount (i.e. min/max is the same) for all players. How would a black chip player and a red chip player play the same pot? The $5 bettor would be getting 20:1 on his/her bet... I think this may be what eventually dooms this game from taking off. Either you price out the low-end players who are (probably) more likely to take a crack at a carny game with no known HE or you eliminate players for whom low maximums don't move the needle - they'd be forced to crank their side bets (whose HE can be calculated and is probably awful) to the moon just to hit their usual level of action.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
  8. bubbamsu

    bubbamsu Low-Roller

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    I would assume the PLAY bet has to be a fixed amount that all the players at the table must play. Meaning a $10 table means $10 and $10 only for the play. The side action would be a range, say..... $5-100. That is the only way I see it being playable unless they break a separate pot for each denomination which will confuse the hell out of everyone.
     
  9. Johnny Bollocks

    Johnny Bollocks Never mind the Bollocks...

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    Yeah, I can't imagine they would do that, I can't even fathom the havoc that would cause. It pretty much HAS to be a fixed denomination play bet and then a range on the side bets.
     
  10. lulli

    lulli Tourist

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    I just read the transcript and yes, the antes are set by the house

    Only the side bets can be customized but according to the examples, they
    are real sucker bets and hard to win.

    The hedge bet says that the dealer's hand is going to be good, and it is. I've got aces and jack's.
    On that I'm going to pay two to one. Let's do that. On the other side bet, the quick draw, it says that
    your two cards are going to beat my five cards. The quick draw pays five to one
     
  11. Johnny Bollocks

    Johnny Bollocks Never mind the Bollocks...

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    So the house edge comes on...

    1) The side bets

    2) The fact that the house loses 1 unit every time a player wins the main pot, while the rest of the pot comes from the other players. If the house wins, they take 2 units per player at the table. So, if there are 5 players, they take 10 bets with each win and only lose 1 for each loss. They only have to win 9% of the time in that example to break even. Mitigating that somewhat is the bonuses they pay for big hands and the auto-fold feature if the dealer hand is too big.