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Reminder about Rule Regarding Disparaging Groups

Discussion in 'Admin. Announcements' started by Sonya, Sep 10, 2020.

  1. Sonya

    Sonya Queen of VMB

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    Please remember that we don't disparage or smear whole groups on VMB. The applicable part of the rules is:

    Posts that disparage any person or group because of their race, gender, age, national origin, disability, sexual preference or religion may be deleted or edited with or without prior notice.


    I've heard descriptions of the people causing trouble in Vegas as trashy, thugs, poor, gang bangers, being of a certain ethnicity, from a certain geographical location, wearing baggy pants, a certain age group, etc. I want to ask you to stop using those kinds of generalizations. It's unfair to paint everyone with the same brush and, some of these words have racial connotations that can alter your meaning.

    There are ways to talk about abhorrent behavior without ascribing it to an entire sub-group of people. I'm getting negative feedback on some of the language and I'm having a hard time figuring out how to keep these discussions open without devolving into that kind of language.

    Can we agree to be a little more careful? Or if you have to call them something, just call them jerks and describe the behavior, instead of assigning them to a group of "others"?

    Thanks!
     
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  2. Gaggles

    Gaggles VIP Whale

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    The Jerk Store serves patrons and sells merchandise to people from every facet of life!
     
    Vegas At Half Speed Is Better Than No Vegas
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  3. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Thanks Sonya.

    The tendency to use a broad brush to describe various groups of people has gone a bit off the deep end. Especially crazy in the political world (on all sides) these days. Seems that most of us have tended to stoop to the lowest common denominator.
     
  4. bull1029

    bull1029 High-Roller

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    I agree. Sadly, jerks come in all genders, races, economic backgrounds, and/or political leanings. They are very non-discriminatory in that way. And we should not discriminate when describing them. As Carrot Top once said: "Ye without sin...." At least I think it was Carrot Top. Might have been Sigfried or Roy.
     
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  5. nfajgmbr03

    nfajgmbr03 MIA

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    Can we go with buttheads, turds, idiots, weirdos, dummies, morons, jackass, putz? Personally I'd like to go the Three Stooges way and maybe call them imbeciles or numbskulls? We should use them all, variety is the spice of life.
     
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  6. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    As someone once told me... on a related note.

    Never argue with an idiot.
    Over time he will wear down to HIS LEVEL.
    And then...
    He wins by experience.

    (could be a she as well... do not want to pick out one group....)
     
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  7. fudgewapner

    fudgewapner Low-Roller

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    This is a great point Sonya - I was thinking the same thing, especially since the phrase "a rough crowd" used here lately is really code for "too many black and brown people." You've taken a good approach here - call out moronic behavior, but not using racist descriptors to paint everyone in a group the same.
     
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  8. topcard

    topcard Re-Open Vegas!

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    It's funny you should cite that ("a rough crowd"), as I don't think of, or even consider such a description to be racially or ethnically specific at all.
    In fact, the first "group" that comes to my mind when reading that phrase are "bikers", and more specifically, those in gangs, with colors... and, as with most groups of that kind, they tend to be multi-racial and multi-ethnic.

    I do get what you're suggesting, and I'm not naive - I'm sure there are some that see such a phrase as some sort of racial/ethnic "code" - certainly, you must, so I'm sure there are others.
    I just think it's a bit unfair to take any such phrase (and one could) and call for it's "non-use", when it doesn't appear to actually possess any racial or ethnic undertones.

    Even some of the suggestions here (jerk, moron, numbskull, idiot, butthead, jackass, etc.) could also be perceived as having an ethnic or racial implication. (I'm not saying they do - just that the 'logic' is similar).

    I would think "rough crowd" or "violent group" or "troublemakers" or "insensitive pack of jerks" could be used interchangeably.
    I think we should all avoid the trap of casting aspersions to any particular age, race, ethnicity or attire, but we should be equally careful to not grant blanket permissiveness when uncivil behavior is occurring that happens to include people of this or that race or ethnicity.

    No person's skin color, race, age or ethnicity is "uncivil" - only behaviors can be... and such behaviors cross any/all "category" lines one can imagine.

    I see nothing wrong with calling out uncivil behavior.
     
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  9. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Nobody is saying don't call out uncivil behavior. But you can do it without either intentionally disparaging an entire group of people or without inadvertantly doing that by using language and descriptions that historically have been used to cast aspersions on certain groups of people
     
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  10. TableToddyy

    TableToddyy High-Roller

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    Good luck, Sonya.

    You'll be policing sports threads next.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
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  11. Joe

    Joe VIP Whale

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    Really? I never would have made that connection to a "rough crowd". Still don't.
     
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  12. joespoolhall

    joespoolhall VIP Whale

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    I hate the concept of lumping together opposites and stereotyping in general.
    At the start of my restaurant career I worked at a hot nightspot, basically a meat market. We had one customer that was just a pain in the ass. He was about 30, a lawyer (which he always pointed out) and in general a jerk. Early one night he came up to the bar and requested a joke, seeing as how I was a bartender. "Bartenders have to know a lot of jokes" was his next comment. I told him it would take a minute to remember a good one. I said while I'm thinking about it, since you're a lawyer, would cheat me or steal something! He was livid and went to ask for the GM, who BTW was not a fan of his. After he told Dale what happened, Dale asked what he stole. We never saw him again. I have nothing against lawyers, just jerks. Sometimes fighting fire with fire is fitting.
     
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  13. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Rough crowd to me is usually is a bunch of rowdy folks - and not what most would call minority. I have a brother or two that I would not like to see in a pack of rowdy guys. ( I be one of those Caucasian types if anybody cares.)

    I hope I did not cross the line. I was not picking on groups in general, just when a FEW get rowdy. The vast majority of folks as mentioned above are just fine visitors and upstanding citizens.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
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  14. Catzilla

    Catzilla VIP Whale

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    I don't talk in code, but I thought a rough crowd was when a comedian told a joke and nobody laughed.
     
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  15. queuetee

    queuetee VIP Whale

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    We all can find offense if we want to. A rough crowd to me is one from whom I sense danger---to me---either by stupidity or intent----and I move away quickly.
     
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  16. carolineno

    carolineno VIP Whale

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    I believe I can get behind this! My daughter’s favorite stooges insult since she was 8 has been “grapehead.” Etymology isn’t my strongest subject but I think this insult is okay - google just brings up the candy and a type of weed.
     
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  17. Joe Strummer

    Joe Strummer VIP Whale

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    Topcard expressed some of my feelings about this "sensitive" issue.
    Well done !
    .
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2020
  18. Sonya

    Sonya Queen of VMB

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    I really don't want to have this particular debate among the users here because it gets into a lot of difficult terrain I'm really hoping to avoid.

    Here is the issue. I'm not sure that people do mean that when they say "rough crowd" or "trashy people" or "thugs". However, the perception is there and it's left to the interpretation of the reader and hard feelings and misconceptions develop. We had a person here who posted a comment about "trashy people" at check in and then included a photo that had several black people in it. I got many PMs about the OP being a racist. I reached out and was assured that was not what they meant, but minds about the person had been made and set in stone among some.

    What I'm asking is that we avoid the pitfall of being misinterpreted by being clear about the behavior and not sliding into using generalizations and stereotyping as a crutch to get around what you're really trying to say.

    I agree. Let's call out the behavior and not make the generalizations and use language that can be misinterpreted.

    And with that, I'd like to ask that we don't debate opinions about the meaning of these terms and instead just focus on being more careful about how we talk about these valid issues. Let's focus on the specific behavior.

    Thanks.
     
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  19. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Well said.
     
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