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Table Games Rant about the decline of Blackjack in Vegas

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Spenard Gambler, Oct 30, 2024.

  1. Spenard Gambler

    Spenard Gambler Tourist

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    My 2nd trip to Las Vegas was when I was 22 back in 2000. 2 college buddies and I stayed at the Treasure Island. We played a ridiculous amount of $5 blackjack over 3 nights. We enjoyed the same rules now only available in the High Limit rooms at MGM properties and Venetian/Palazzo. 3/2, S17, re-split aces, and surrender. We had a grand time. We'd start playing in the late morning and early afternoon and get "grandfathered" in. On our last night, we played into the early morning at table that moved to $50 minimum and we were still playing our $5. It was my biggest win of my life at $1500. I was hooked.

    To get those rules now, you have to bet at least $100 a hand and often $300-$500 a hand. I realize that people are still filling up tables that offer $6/5 blackjack. But are the casinos going lose in the long term? How are they going to get create the next blackjack addicts with a game that is so tilted to the house? Even with the good rules, the casino still has the edge. And most players don't get that lower house advantage because they don't double down and split enough.

    I usually get a drink with my casino host every trip. I think he summed it up well. He said, "Vegas today isn't about hospitality or a giving a player a fair game. It's about extracting every dollar from the customer as quickly as we can."

    Rant over. While today, I can afford to play $100 a hand, 22 year old me surely couldn't.

    Allen
     
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  2. deansrobinson

    deansrobinson VIP Whale

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    Last time in $15/hand Vegas, at Planet Ho, Paris, MGM, Cromwell, Horseshoe , most of the tables were
    filled with >= thirty-five-year-olds.

    There are millions upon millions of people who will visit Vegas - that one time - and don't care
    about "rules"; they just want to be able to say that they played blackjack in Vegas and add in
    that they either won huge or shake their heads lamenting their losses (adds to the story).

    I don't know that, at twenty-two, I would have had an interest in sitting at the tables as long
    as I currently do. Attention span and all that.
     
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  3. Travel Fanatic

    Travel Fanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    My general reaction to this is ...meh. Part of my reaction is just its the same old same old. I have been on VMB for almost fifteen years and I think during the entirety of my time here, people have complained about the state of gaming in Vegas (and other places). It gets old. People dislike change. So the constant and inevitable complaining gets old. Stuff gets more expensive. Film used to be an intense hobby of mine when i was younger. I have many fond memories of seeing new releases midweek for three bucks. These days, I might see one film a year in the theater because I think the prices are ridiculous. But I also accept that its just the way of things. I don't rant about it. My life simply changed when i started making new choices.

    Vegas, like almost every tourist spot, only gets more expensive. The people complaining today about the dearth of five dollar games simply replaced the gamblers before them that complained about the disappearance of two dollar roulette with quarter chips. Changing odds and higher minimums are all concerted efforts to make it more expensive to play in Vegas. That will continue in the future. For those that, understandably, do not like the price it costs to play, its time to find a new hobby
     
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  4. Whoopdido777

    Whoopdido777 High-Roller

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    Yeah I get so tired of hearing “I remember back when a hamburger cost $3” while they’re looking at the menu at Deliah with a hamburger that costs $33. Honestly though come down to SW FL, where I live and $24-$26 is par for course for a hamburger. I don’t really know why I went off on a tangent there about hamburgers but like you said things constantly change and constantly get more expensive and people constantly complain and talk about the “good old days.” It does tend to get tiresome.
     
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  5. Hockeylade

    Hockeylade High-Roller

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    Most of the folks playing blackjack don’t understand how the rules of a table changes the house edge
     
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  6. Spenard Gambler

    Spenard Gambler Tourist

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    Well, the demise of low minimum low house edge blackjack hasn't stopped me from coming that's for sure!
    The one thing in life that is constant is change. And that seems doubly true for Las Vegas.
    I also agree most low minimum black jack players aren't concerned about getting the best odds they can.
    And "ranting" on an anonymous message board isn't going to do anything anyway. But I was able to get it off my chest.
     
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  7. Spenard Gambler

    Spenard Gambler Tourist

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    As a firm believer that a positive outlook is critical to a happy life, I realize I mistitled my thread. I should have focused on the positive and called this thread "Fond memories of Vegas Blackjack from my youth." That 2000 Treasure Island Trip was a blast!
     
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  8. azlefty

    azlefty VIP Whale

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    $x bet x 1% house hold x 6 players x 60 hands per hour =3.6x hold per table, where x is average bet.
    So a $5 average-bet table holds around $18 per hour. A $10 table holds around $36, when 6 people are playing. When a dealer is waiting for players, the table earns nothing.

    That needs to account for the salary + other compensation (health care, which Americans typically get through their employer; vacation; etc) of 1.5 dealers (due to break time, which I think is 20 min per hour), amortized over the dealer's work week including times when nobody is playing; plus the table's share of pit supervisor, management, security, accounting, comps, cleaning staff, debt servicing, utilities, etc.

    A dealer in Las Vegas earns around $15/hour on average, excluding tips. I believe a typical employer-paid health care benefit at a large company costs the employer between $10,000 and $30,000 per year, which averages $5 to $15 per paid hour. So dealers alone cost at least $30 = (15 base + 5 healthcare) * 1.5 dealers dealing or on break, per table per hour.

    Somehow, you can find a $5 table at a few casinos like Ellis Island, South Point, Jerrys Nugget, etc, but it's often a single table per casino, and they are probably loss leaders, say, provided for the cheap friends of bigger gamblers. Or you can come to West Wendover, NV and always find one. I don't know how they make that work, but I'm sure they are getting paid less.
     
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  9. hail2skins

    hail2skins VIP Whale

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    The higher minimums are more easily explainable than screwing with the odds on the basic games.
     
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  10. Spenard Gambler

    Spenard Gambler Tourist

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    I think that was the intent of my original post. I'd understand if blackjack minimums had gone to $25 and kept the same rules. Even in 2000, it was hard to find $5 blackjack after 4pm. And I get that its the corporation's right to offer whatever they want. Heck, I'm an MGM shareholder. But I guess I thought it was neat that I was playing the same exact game that high rollers were playing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2024
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  11. duceiswild

    duceiswild High-Roller

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    You might be surprised not only how many people don’t understand how it changes the odds, but how many actually think 6/5 is BETTER than 3/2. 6>5, 3>2, it must be better! And until the casino stops seeing a full 6/5 right next to an open 3/2 at the same min, what incentive do they have to offer better rules?
     
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  12. Dms79

    Dms79 VIP Whale

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    Cuz the same people that won’t play $25-50 minimums will (by and large) play $10-15 6:5 tables with 4x the house edge.
     
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  13. Ron Swanson

    Ron Swanson Tourist

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    Sad but very very true.
     
    First one of the new year!
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  14. hail2skins

    hail2skins VIP Whale

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    I played $5 3/2 at Monte Carlo in the evenings in 2010-2011. Now we're at a point where you can't play 3/2 at the same property unless you're in high limit. That is nonsense.
     
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  15. Travel Fanatic

    Travel Fanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Changing the odds or raising the minimum, its all just different ways to increase the cost to play. Steve Wynn basically admitted that when the Wynn went through its phase of reducing the craps odds to 2x outside of the high limit room. Its just different methods of achieving the same goal
     
  16. Travel Fanatic

    Travel Fanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    Yeah, because there are plenty of people visiting the casino that just want to play the game. They see a $15 table with bad rules and (perhaps correctly) realize they can play longer on their $100 bankroll at that table than the $50 table with the better rules. That's the primary reason I don't really get worked up about or critical of people playing the game with the worse odds. I won't (at least at the tables), but other people are going to make other choices that they feel are best for them. Barring some fortunate variance, they are going to lose that money either way
     
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  17. pressitagain

    pressitagain VIP Whale

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    Most gamblers have set budgets. If a casino can get people playing less time in the casino then they’re spending their dollars in other areas. Win/win….
     
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  18. bagpipe1

    bagpipe1 Tourist

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    Your original post is the very reason I now only stay and play at the off strip/ locals casinos
     
  19. Sterlinghusky

    Sterlinghusky Low-Roller

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    I agree with this 100% I have played 12hrs of 6:5 only low limit tables where I drank off the difference. But if I’m playing 6:5 it’s at 15/20 per hand and it’s to drink beer and waste some time and I can play a long time on a few hundred bucks. When it’s time to play for real it’s always the HL room and good rules, that being said things can go good or bad fast at 200+ per hand. So it really comes down to bankroll, having fun first then table rules second.
     
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  20. jstark

    jstark High-Roller

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    If I want to play blackjack, I just deal it myself at home.
     
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