1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Table Games Prediction for Table Limits Post 100% Capacity

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Idahoskidog, Apr 14, 2021.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    6,360
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    35
    Yeah, it is an empirical fact that gambling is a minority of the revenue stream lately. It's obviously a bit different now due to the pandemic, but I think it was around 40% or so in the Before Times. I won't take a stance on whether that's good or bad, and I do think casinos still care about gamblers, but it's not their primary source of income anymore. I can't tell you how many people I know who love Vegas, visit all the time, and haven't gambled a cent in there lives.
     
  2. topcard

    topcard Vegas Has Re-Opened!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    7,291
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    95
    Well, I happen to really appreciate $5 craps precisely because of the flexibility it provides me when tables are cold.
    To be honest, playing a $10 table (for me) only impacts my line bet (and my odds behind the line). Instead of $5 backed with $10, it ends up being $10 back with $10, so it's only costing me $5 more per pass than the $5 table.
    I will not play $25 craps because, frankly, I won't risk the bankroll required for that level of play... and just betting a $25 line with $50 behind it? Sorry, but where's the fun in that?!?
    :beer:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    6,360
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    35
    I'm with you. I'm not looking for bare minimums; I'll usually play $50 at a $25 blackjack table. But the thing about craps is that it really does add up. Putting aside the overall house edge, in terms of money on the table, between the pass line, the odds, the place bets, and the other stuff, it can become a lot.

    EDIT: Also, for me, the fun in craps is throwing bets all over the table. I have no interest in just betting the pass line with 1x odds. So as the minimums go up, the appeal for me goes down. I'll play $300 blackjack or bacc, but a $25/$50 craps table is more than I'd like.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
  4. hail2skins

    hail2skins VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,443
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    Jake, I'd probably be nitpicking by moving your date of when Vegas got "way nicer" to probably between 1998-2000, when Bellagio, Mandalay Bay, Venetian, Paris, and the new Aladdin came online. I've remarked in several threads that while that period was likely the height of my Vegas enthusiasm, I started to have this nagging question of "how much nicer can they really make these places?" To me, Wynncore really didn't move the needle compared to Bellagio, Palazzo was just a second tower of the Venetian complex, and I can't say either Aria or Cosmo have knocked my socks off. Resorts World will be the first new megaresort in 11 years, and I'm looking forward to checking it out, but don't anticipate anything in terms of game-changers.

    I thought it was interesting looking at the visitation and gaming revenue statistics. From 1998 to 2000, Vegas visitation soared from 30.6 million to 35.8 million, with Clark County gaming revenues going from 6.3 billion to 7.7 billion. By 2007. visitation had increased to 39.1 million, and gaming revenue to 10.8 million. then the recession, and visitation didn't exceed 2007 levels until 2012, at 39.7 million, but gaming revenue was only 9.4 million. In 2019, visitation had further increased to 42.5 million, but gaming revenue at 10.3 billion still was shy of the 2007 high.

    Again, while understanding the increases in costs to support employee wages and benefits, what gripes me more are the rules changes. I still think the Strip casinos should be able to offer $15 3/2 at the majority of their blackjack tables. Instead, it seems like folks have to settle for 6/5 at that minimum at most places along LV Blvd. But I will concede that some of this phenomenon isn't completely new. A trip I took in the spring of 2006 stands out. My friend and I got there on a Sunday and stayed at Aladdin/P-Ho. In the middle of Sunday afternoon, I walked the stretch of the Strip between Barbary Coast (was it called Bill's by then?) and Harrah's, not exactly the nicer places on the Strip (albeit centrally located) and starkly remember pretty much every craps table along the stretch being $15 minimum. In 2006! I remember being very surprised. Now, by that evening (and the next), we did play craps at Aladdin for $5.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2012
    Messages:
    6,360
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    35
    I'm with you that people shouldn't have to "settle", but the fact is, most just don't care.

    $15 is doable at some places, though probably not at the Arias and Bellagios of the world. I've seen $25 3:2 at Aria on weekdays, but I can't blame them for bumping it up on weekends and evenings; $17 french fries bug me more.

    Still Barbary Coast in 2006, I think it switched over to "Bill's" in 2007. I remember doing $5 craps at Paris around then, too.

    EDIT: Also, this is just me, but I don't find the rules "unfair", but rather "unfavorable". If people are gonna voluntarily play those games, like 6:5 blackjack or triple-zero roulette, it's not my place to tell them they shouldn't if they're having a good time.
     
  6. alexm

    alexm VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,386
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    4
    I completely agree with this perspective. If I'm having fun and playing the limit I want, I don't really care if the actual rules are unfavorable. For me I play $5 6/5 because the bankroll risk is negligible in the short term. 4 hours by myself at 5 dollar table would result in about 4,000 dollars of hands played. At 3/2 my expected loss is about 40 bucks, and at 6/5 it's 80. Either way if I have played for 4 straight hours on a hundred dollar bill, I'm very happy (and probably quite drunk). I understand that this is very unlikely, but the math says it should theoretically happen.

    As to making money on a 15$ table at 3/2. During Covid times with 3 seats at the table, you're looking at 4500 wagered per hour (100 hands per hour x 3 players). On 3/2 that's 45 dollars of expected revenue and at 6/5 its 90. Even at a full table of 7, you only increase the amount wagered to 5250. (50 hands per hour x 7 players).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. GeorgeJ.

    GeorgeJ. VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    1,193
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    40
    Boyd has the dealers entering the player's card into the system...if that makes it over to the Strip then that's one less thing that a pit boss does..
     
  8. Headache 21

    Headache 21 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,334
    Location:
    DC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    Conceivably if things are going to 80% on Saturday that should mean that the blackjack tables that were limited to 3 open seats should be able to open with 4 open seats, yes?
     
  9. PressThe5n9

    PressThe5n9 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2018
    Messages:
    1,070
    Location:
    TN
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    3
    You would think and like to believe this would be the case, however, our math and casino math doesn’t usually match up.

    I’m hoping that more spots open up on tables sooner rather than later but you never can be sure what the casinos (or higher powers) have in mind.
     
    Youngest Son’s 21st Birthday Trip to the Desert
    • Love Love x 1
  10. Headache 21

    Headache 21 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,334
    Location:
    DC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    i have to imagine they'll try. i mean what the hell's the point of being able to go to 80% if you're not going to add seats?
     
  11. alexm

    alexm VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2014
    Messages:
    1,386
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    4
    Actually it would be able to be 5, but the capacity issue was never the reason seating was reduced. Capacity is property wide, so if the property can hold 10000 at 50% capacity it can hold 5000 people regardless of where they are. My understanding was social distancing was the impetus for seat reduction. Trying to give people 6 feet of distance. I would think the bigger perk is the reduction in distancing to 3 feet, so basically an arms length. I would think this would allow them to get 5 at a table if spread properly, but maybe not have consecutive tables open.

    Also with approval for 100% and no distance really coming down the pike in the next 30 days or less, I'm wondering how much they are going to try to tweak (different glass etc).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. jon95616

    jon95616 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    320
    Location:
    Southern California
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    Any idea if there will be $10-15 craps on the strip first weekend in June?
     
  13. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2007
    Messages:
    6,754
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    35
    Friday evening the crap tables at the cal and Fremont were $15 minimums. The Cal had 5 players (out of 8 possible slots) playing. Fremont had 3 tables open....but no players! This was at 9 pm! Maybe they should have had at least 1 table $10 minimum just to bring in players. I had a few hours to kill before going to the airport. I usually put in some last minute crap action before leaving but the $15 minimum just killed it for me so I saved some money. I am a red chip player so $10 minimums is stretching it but $15 minimums just turned me off.

    I know there were discussions about casinos lowering their minimum limit but doesn't matter to me, I can find $10 minimum tables downtown so I refuse to play on anything higher unless I was a big winner that day.

    I just hope that the $10 - $15 minimum tables won't be the downtown norm in the future. Otherwise I may start playing away from downtown. I already stopped playing on the strip so hope downtown doesn't go the same way with higher minimums.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. DaiLun

    DaiLun R.C., L.C., and A.A.N.G.

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    12,134
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    BFF told me that craps minimums Downtown at Club One (Circa, Golden Gate, and the D) were all at $15.00. He went over to Fremont and they were $15.00. Surprised, he asked the pit boss why they were so high. He was told that "management" figured that if the Club One casino's customers were tolerating $15 minimums, they should be able to set their minimums at that level too.
     
    Palazzo - break before 2nd HGS weekend
    HGS Weekend #2!!!!
    • Wow! Wow! x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. Necrochaos

    Necrochaos VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2020
    Messages:
    1,153
    Location:
    Michigan
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    3
    If they try to keep these minimums up, I’ll be heading to El Co or off strip to Jerry’s and South Point. What ever happened to competition?

    I like Stevens properties but I’m not going to play strip prices downtown.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2011
    Messages:
    7,594
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    21
    In my opinion $15 craps tables Downtown is too high. Let the Steven's properties post high minimums and try to mimic the Strip. The other casinos (other than GN who always was hoity toity and high nose) should lower at least to $10 which I believe will be sadly, the new norm.

    Just my opinion. Fremont and the Cal are plain stupid to try to be the same as the Steven's properties.

    But whatever. We all have the choice to play or not.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  17. AbFab

    AbFab Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    469
    Location:
    New York
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    yeah not getting why Fremont and Cal have it at $15. Was there two weeks ago and pretty much dead for a weekend. I feel for the dealers tips have been down because of the this.
    Golden nugget had a 10 dolla table Friday early afternoon.
     
  18. DaiLun

    DaiLun R.C., L.C., and A.A.N.G.

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    12,134
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    Please see my statement above. Fremont and Cal have it at $15 because all the Club One casinos were getting away with it.
     
    Palazzo - break before 2nd HGS weekend
    HGS Weekend #2!!!!
  19. avlak13

    avlak13 Tourist

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2020
    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    No. Illinois
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    8
    The Cromwell dealers do this.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. AbFab

    AbFab Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    469
    Location:
    New York
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    I read that and should’ve clarified, I’m not getting managements thinking as tables were dead for a weekend.

    I guess time will tell if that strategy worked.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.