1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Players Concentrate too much on Tier level

Discussion in 'Comps' started by Timothy Miller, Sep 15, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. fraygul

    fraygul Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    449
    Location:
    Saskatoon
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    I like that question, I'm curious about that too.
    I'm the lower bet for all day type. If I don't get a whole lot of time playing slots, I'm very likely to go back to the bank machine and get more. I'm also very likely to add any winnings to the bankroll to play longer. It's more about playing fun slots/bonus games than winning money. It has to be a good amount for me to pocket it and take it home (I haven't hit that number yet, but my guess would be $5000+) Do the higher bet players for less time do the same, or are they more likely to hit something good because their bet is higher and stop? Just curious.
     
  2. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    11,299
    Location:
    Boston
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    27
    I would use # of spins in lieu of clock time, but yeah, I can't argue against the fact that for an equal amount of total coin in, spreading it across 3,000 spins exposes you more times to the house edge than 1,000, and the more trials, the closer you should get to theo and the less risk to the casino that you walk out ahead.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. fraygul

    fraygul Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Messages:
    449
    Location:
    Saskatoon
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    I'm a reel stopper. I try and try to not do it but it's habit. I get a lot of spins in haha.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Lmarl72936

    Lmarl72936 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    277
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    LOL like most Hosts that come here to this board, they get bombarded with questions and comments and tend to disappear never to be heard from again.. :( .
     
  5. Sonya

    Sonya Queen of VMB

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 1999
    Messages:
    39,469
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    It's only been a day. Let's try to have a little patience. :haha:
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  6. DJP

    DJP Low-Roller

    Joined:
    May 2, 2018
    Messages:
    249
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    I was thinking about number of spins, too. This would seem to mean that playing, say, one spin per minute for 4 hours is more valuable to the casino than playing two spins per minute for 2 hours. Same number of spins, but if we measure time, rather than spin count, it gets misleading.

    But, at the end of the day, they have to pick which metrics they want to focus on. Maybe their algorithm penalizes you if you pause playing too long (ie, leave your card and credits in a machine, but on your phone for ten minutes, not actively playing).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Ade87

    Ade87 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    145
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    1
    I think at that point Coin In comes in to play also as it would be rock bottom.
     
  8. Grid

    Grid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    3,485
    Location:
    Chicago
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    31
    I assume it is much easier for a host to tell a player "We expect 3 hours of max bet in order to comp your room" then it is to say "We expect 3,000 spins @ $3.00 max bet or 6,000 spins at $1.50 max bet, or 1,500 spins at $6.00 Max Bet or...."

    I have had hosts tell me the "hours" to be rated at the slots before. I don't think anyone uses "spins" outside of advanced analytical software that the club might be running for your value ratings. I know a couple people on these boards that use a coaches "clicker" to track spins as a way of money management. But the other 99% of gamblers probably grade their own play by points on the machine (which should equate to coin in) or hours played in the casino (which will always be flawed since you walk from machine to machine, but it is still an easier tracker then spins)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Guy_

    Guy_ VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    1,577
    Location:
    Ontario Canada
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    27
    The only reason I can see Time as a factor is to try and get more of your non gambling budget.
    The longer they can keep you in a casino, the more likely you will get hungry and eat there rather then moving on to somewhere else.
    Even that is far fetched but I cant see any other reason (other then what Grid said about it being easier to tell players the expectation)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    7,567
    Location:
    Florida
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    26
    Wait, are you saying he isn't doing this full time???!?!?!?!?:whistle::wink2:
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  11. Timothy Miller

    Timothy Miller Casino Host

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    New Orleans
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    Yeah I have sunday, monday off so i was doing dry cleanig.. typical house maintence etc.. Let me throw together a bunch of questions in one.

    Lets talk about the Time on Device question.
    The player who asked saw that either way it was $3000 regarless of if it was 6 hours or 2 hours.
    The best way to understand this is ... You either gave me 6 hours to win 3k or gave me 2 hours to win 3k . We would prefer to incentiveze giving the casino more time to win your money.

    As far as denom :
    .01 players have the largest disadvantage... if i recall its like the casino has around 34% advantage over you and so playing at penny for time yields the best theo. as you would theo-retically.. lose more over time.
    .25 like 22%
    1.00 like 18%
    Im talking machines not spinning for 3.00 at pennies but spinning on a penny machine.

    The actual percentages are in a pamphlet available at CET, i literally forget which one but there is a page that actually does a really good job of breaking down play. If anyone goes in try and find it and post screenshots its really informative.

    As far as the " here is my specific senario of days how does this play.... "
    Just go through the thread, there are the generalized rules of thought that " If you take a comp, a comp is created or an adjustment is made.. a gaming day has been created" - again this is true even of adjustments made weeks post trip as was referenced in one part of the thread.

    Im headed out to meet my friends baby and have some dinner then grind away at Xcom until i sleep to the dullcet tones of by phone beeping with messages and emails.

    Much love and I really am generally excited at the fevor for knowledge.

    There are minutae details that change some of these considerations. Be they line level employees making edits. Guests canceling hotel rooms and re-booking them etc.. Understand please I wont be on the board 24/7 but i will always do my best to speak to your quandrys unless of course theve been spoken to previously. or correctly.
     
    • Like Like x 8
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Love Love x 1
  12. Ade87

    Ade87 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    145
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    1
    Thanks for the detail Tim! There was me thinking the best bit about low rolling is only getting through a $10 before the CW came back around! Confirms some of the pondering over the last page though, very interesting!
     
  13. mdm4sfest

    mdm4sfest VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,587
    Location:
    Cleveland, OH
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    19
    Is a weekend comp (checkin Friday/leave Saturday) weight more than a weekday comp?
     
  14. Sonya

    Sonya Queen of VMB

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 1999
    Messages:
    39,469
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    How dare you. :wink2: :haha:
     
    • Funny Funny x 8
    • Love Love x 1
  15. SuperCoop

    SuperCoop Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2017
    Messages:
    214
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    I’m really thankful when a host comes on the board. Thanks Tim! Lots of good information shared so far.

    I’ve basically stopped asking hosts “why” questions —why is my free play xxx this month vs last month, etc..because I have grown tired of hearing the party line of “offers are based on past play and determined by Marketing”. Grrr...marketing. At some point I’d like to do an experiment to test out how responsive the mensa members in marketing are to “short playing”.

    Your tips on how to look like the best possible player are great, but aren’t there macro factors that influence offers?

    For example— It is my understanding that free play offers are counted towards the state required minimum payback on slots. That is, if state law dictate penny machines should hold at 88 percent, but actual results are 86 percent (bc variance), the casino counts the free play offers to shore up the difference and be in compliance. Is this true? And does it matter if the free play was offered but never used vs offered and used? And does the cash value of that super awesome perfect hard boiled egg maker also count? Or my 7th waterproof Bluetooth speaker?

    I ask bc even if I have perfect data and control over my own gaming, aren’t there other factors
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Timothy Miller

    Timothy Miller Casino Host

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    New Orleans
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    There is indeed other aspects that effect it. I can only really put forward the knowledge that i am aware of and has worked to develop my players. It is definitely more complicated than the basics of it. To that end, I have turned my brain to wonder on machine volatility lately as well. I don't know the the accuracy as to what you described but I can say it's the first I have heard of it. Risk is a factor that is always incorporated and some casinos use different systems and different methods to rate theo. Then the marketing campaigns can change. Pull data can be variable. the control group on pull and offer data can be mercurial. Marketing may create two different groups and market them differently in the same exact ranges.. It can all get very dumb so to that end i only try to control what i see and know.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. smerrian

    smerrian View from Bally's

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2014
    Messages:
    6,954
    Location:
    South Jersey
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    50
    Does getting free parking cause a trip? You come in, use your diamond card to park free and then just walk the Strip. Have you triggered a 'trip'?
     
    PHX >> LAS
    Thank You, Wynn
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Grid

    Grid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    3,485
    Location:
    Chicago
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    31
    Just saving Tim some time here, since both of these have been covered a few times already.

    Most casinos return roughly a third of your expected losses in comps. If your coin-in on a penny machine is $3K a day, that holds a 10% win for the casino. They expect to earn $300 of your money each day. A third back is $100 in comps. That might be a regular room midweek valued at $75 and $25 in free play. Or it might mean a weekend room valued at $100 and no free play.

    So, when the market demand is higher (busy season, big fight in town, a series of large conventions or just the weekends) the room value is higher, and eats into more of your comp fund. Some people only play enough to get midweek comped and a weekend discount. Others are right on the line where it doesn't matter. Free room any time and $500 in free play (or whatever). I hope this helps.

    If you put your card in the machine to validate, you are on the clock. If you flash your card to an attendant you are not. Any time the machine knows you are on property, the gaming day has begun. Not just for parking, but for picking up a free gift, using a dining credit or just getting a discount for your tier level in the gift shop.

    Like it or not, all of those things are comps. And drawing a comp (even free parking is complimentary to Diamond players) starts your gaming day.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. Burnsie

    Burnsie High-Roller

    Joined:
    May 29, 2017
    Messages:
    827
    Location:
    NY State
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    Forgive me if this has been asked and answered here a million times—

    Are CET marketing offers based solely on gambling $$$, or do they also factor 'total spend' into the equation?
     
    Harrah's ATLANTIC CITY
  20. Timothy Miller

    Timothy Miller Casino Host

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    New Orleans
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    Varies by property. I would say less and less cumulative is not a factor. it is truly becoming a 'what have you done lately for me' business ( like most ). There was an example i gave before in the thread about two people one comes in 4 days a week and gambles $100 ... which is 20,800 / yr . Another player comes in twice a year for 5k each visit. Last room scenario choice has to be made. Every time all the time the room goes to the 5k guy. as the likelihood is the cumulative player is going to come in and spend 100 dollars. His cume is of no consequence well take the 5k in action over the 100.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.