1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Players Concentrate too much on Tier level

Discussion in 'Comps' started by Timothy Miller, Sep 15, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Timothy Miller

    Timothy Miller Casino Host

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    New Orleans
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    So i no longer work at CET but one of the lines one hears often is " But I'm a diamond " or I have had Seven Star Status for 5 years now..

    I am certain the same is true for other brands be it Emerald, Pearl, Black.. etc etc...

    This viewpoint also isn't what i personally consider fair, unfair, equitable or dis-equitable it is just for informational purposes when making an ask.

    ***
    The Tier gets you what ever it that is advertised that comes with the tier level. Not additional things. Lets take a look at Diamond as a status with CET because that's the one I am most familiar with.

    So 15,000 tier points to 149,999 is Diamond.. As you can imagine there are a LOT of different type of players between 15,000 points and the latter. So when a guest explains they are a diamond.. that actually doesn't offer up much information as to the level of their play when they are asking for additional consideration.

    The Tier is in and of itself the promise of core defined benefits you have earned and are welcome to. Though there are offers tied to the tier level the majority of your offers are tied to your play amount, risk per day, time on device, and comp to play ratios. ( For example i always feel bad for those people that win like a million in comp because really they are just about to tank their offers for a lifetime ) ... Anyway...

    Offers also change based on if you are a local, regional or national guest visiting a place.

    Here is a prime example one sees often enough. ( simplified )

    I have a single room remaining.
    2 different players would like that last room on a Saturday.

    The first is a local who gambles $300 a week $150/visit twice a week risking $15,600/ year and is a Diamond.
    The second is a national guest who comes 2 times a year gambling $2500/visit they are a Platinum ( lower tier ) gaining only $5k / year toward the casino.

    100% of the time the room will go to the second person. The first is going to likely put $150 into action whereas the second is going to put $2500 into action. Status is inconsequential.

    The casino also sees the second as using less comp and resources of the casino on a yearly basis, the second player is just more profitable and requires less service that the prior even though the first is worth more over time. Discretion is almost always short sighted.

    That's all i've got for now im actually at work but it was just a thought i wanted to share, and i hope it helps someone understand how it is looked at a little better.

    I also realize the post is rambling and disjointed but well.. yeah. That's how that is guess.
     
    • Informative Informative x 27
    • Like Like x 7
  2. Timothy Miller

    Timothy Miller Casino Host

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    New Orleans
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    Oh you know I actually lost the original point which is the most useful. As a player one would be better off maintaining and managing their value and averages than they would a tier level. I used to train all my guests this way.

    When you go into a casino assume you are going to be rated on your last rolling 3 trips. If you are a 10 trip per month person ( local to a casino ) could you get as much enjoyment out of 5 trips but set aside the money each trip you didn't make to double up? If you can you would likely triple your base offers while maintaing the exact same gambling wallet.

    NEVER EVER just come in for comp... Like just dont do it.. Why?
    So you come in because their giving away your fav cooler, laptop, tupperware set, show, movie etc...

    Because if you don't play and play to your level you again are tanking and changing your offers.
    Just like high school imagine how much it would effect your average.

    300+0+300 = 200 avg
    0r
    300+300+300 = 300 avg

    The same goes for time. Plan how long you want to be there. I like my table players to avg 5 or more hours a day and my slot players to try to crawl over 3.

    Slot players take more risk than table players.. duh.
    But both are going to leave when they double up or triple up likely. This falls in to the risk over time.

    If Joe comes in and put 10k on black and looses... the casino doesnt incentivize that type of play. He gave me like x% over 3 seconds to win 10k

    But if becky comes in and bets $100 / bet on black over six hours to the total of 10k she has given me a much larger chance to win over time to win 10k and so we insentivise that play.

    Make sense?
     
    • Informative Informative x 7
    • Like Like x 4
  3. DaiLun

    DaiLun R.C., L.C., and A.A.N.G.

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2014
    Messages:
    10,252
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    I often wondered about that, and I actually asked my host whether if I stayed 3 days, was it better for her if I played

    1000+1000+1000 vs. (3000TC for CET, 6000 TC for me)

    2500+500+0 (3000TC for CET, 8625 for me.)

    I know which way would work better for me . . . .

    She never repled.
     
    Slot tournament at Venetian, then on to Cosmopolitan
    Cosmopolitan . . .time to try them out.
  4. Timothy Miller

    Timothy Miller Casino Host

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    New Orleans
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    Trips spanning days are a little different.. The never stop in and do a zero dollar day is more for the local who might come in and grab some one off offer or some generic free play and go in essence tanking thier offers because thier trip agv will consist of 1 day.

    You are generating a trip avg so we chuck it all together for your three day per trip avg, i would see and your offers would reflect ....
    Dailun is expected to put x in action per day of his x long trip. .... This can get hokey and can change averages a little when the player plays after the casino " promotional day " .. lets say the " Promotional day " is 6am -6am.

    You wake up on the day of check out walk down for a coffee... Throw 20 bucks in a machine with your card while you wait for someone to make eggs.

    Well you just turned a 3 days " trip avg " into a four day and changed all the stats for action / day.

    Does that help?
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Timothy Miller

    Timothy Miller Casino Host

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    New Orleans
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    Also i wouldn't begrudge her too much i find a lot of hosts just don't know and are scared to answer and when they do find out it isnt all that beneficial to get the information out because you are into marketing the next event or filling the next tourn etc.. and so the priority to answer that gets lower and lower if you are poor at time management.
     
  6. wanker751

    wanker751 Dutch Rudder Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Messages:
    7,480
    Location:
    Chicago
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    17
    Yeah the checkout day I usually don't play unless I have time to do close to normal amount of play. I always figured that was how it worked out but wasn t 100%.
    Thanks for the info
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. grosx2

    grosx2 Have fun storming the castle!

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    Messages:
    3,030
    Location:
    Chicago
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    29
    Appreciate you sharing your insight. I had always assumed that check out day was counted as a gaming day no matter what.

    Just so I'm clear, you are saying that if I arrive on Thursday, gamble Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, then check out and go home on Sunday, but don't use my card on Sunday, my trip will only be counted as three days? But if I used the card on Sunday, it would be counted as four days?
     
  8. Timothy Miller

    Timothy Miller Casino Host

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    New Orleans
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    Yes. However its gets even better and more stupid... lets say i make a comp adjustment on the last day and it posts the computers generate that as a gaming day... Which is my least favorite when we are doing something weeks later where you look at someones stuff and your like... tell me about this 0.00 minute day on 7/14 and you all i didn't do anything.. and it was because the guest was concerned over some $4 charge they wanted to make a stand on that got adjusted off time by a line level employee generating a zero dollar gambling day.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 3
  9. Timothy Miller

    Timothy Miller Casino Host

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    New Orleans
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    The above is stupidity from a cooperation that gets under my skin. We should be able to remove something like that because it messes everything up and provides bad data but.. low and behold not so much.
     
  10. Lmarl72936

    Lmarl72936 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    277
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    Tim thanks so much for the info!!! This information you provided is worth its weight in gold..
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Grant1982

    Grant1982 High-Roller

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2016
    Messages:
    760
    Location:
    Memphis TN
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    7
    It all depends on the club, and what someone is wanting out of the club. Sometimes a higher tier comes with better point multipliers. Some people value VIP lounges. Depending on how someone takes advantage of benefits getting a certain tier CAN be beneficial and worth it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Love Love x 1
  12. Timothy Miller

    Timothy Miller Casino Host

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    New Orleans
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    I'm certainly not saying that tiers aren't beneficial. What i am saying is what a tier offers is defined. Using it to leverage value for additional thing isn't how tiers work.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. BlacklabberMike

    BlacklabberMike MIA

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Messages:
    5,375
    Location:
    Where's Ware?
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    agree with the OP... i get to town once a year if lucky maybe 2...

    usually downgraded to gold,but now platinum....

    didn't go for 2 years due to a personal situation....called for a room...no dice...
    i asked to look back at the last few years.... "how many nights would you like"?

    people overrate tiers....just my personal insignificant opinion...
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Love Love x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. Ty

    Ty ?

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    5,499
    Location:
    Mid Ga
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    22
    Many thanks for taking the time to post and share. I've had a Boyd host tell me a 3 night stay will be 4 gambling days whether I play on the first/last day or not. Seems a Planet Hollywood host here on VMB stated the same. As if checking-in and checking-out would trigger a gambling day. Have any input on this?

    Thanks again.
     
    First Trip of 2021
    • Like Like x 1
  15. JeJas

    JeJas VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Messages:
    3,931
    Location:
    NY
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    0
    tier does have benefits.
    with CET Diamond, you don't pay the resort fees, and nowadays,
    the resort fee is even higher than the room rate.
    You also save parking fees, get free show tickets.
    If you are CET Gold and want to get those things comped,
    you have to play many hours slots, and by then you already reach Diamond.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Timothy Miller

    Timothy Miller Casino Host

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    New Orleans
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    I can't speak to Boyd but I can specifically to PH and to the caveat ill make at the end. For PH its a three day trip of three gaming days. The easiest way to consider your trip is " am i receiving a comp i will be charged for today ". The host may understand fundamentally she is going to make it a four day trip anyway by making adjustments to folio etc on that checkout day.. generating a day where in you will be receiving comps. For me i always try to finish my folios on the date roll because i want to maximize every red penny for myself and my guests.My skillset has never been in bringing in a bunch of high rollers my skill set is in making average and good gamblers look 5 times better than the casino thinks they are by working the edges and teaching them as much as i can to improve how they are rated.
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Informative Informative x 2
  17. Timothy Miller

    Timothy Miller Casino Host

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    New Orleans
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    Yes to all this.. you get those things with tier as i said as a core agreement of reaching tier. You also will get all those things with high average play regardless of tier.
     
  18. offshorecca

    offshorecca Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2017
    Messages:
    111
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    28
    Hey Tim, couple questions if you dont mind.

    1) If you come in late on one night and there 3 full days and leave early morning on the 4th day what are the expectations on total hours for a visit like this? in other words "techinally" there 5 days but the first day you arrive at 10:30 pm and the last day you leave at 7am

    2) if you are there for 4 full days and dont play one day at all and play 5 -6 hours the other 3 days is that generally ok? All table games with over a $200.00 average bet
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Timothy Miller

    Timothy Miller Casino Host

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2018
    Messages:
    202
    Location:
    New Orleans
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    1) If you come in late on one night and there 3 full days and leave early morning on the 4th day what are the expectations on total hours for a visit like this? in other words "techinally" there 5 days but the first day you arrive at 10:30 pm and the last day you leave at 7am

    My personal expectation and what i ask of my guests is step 1, lets not mess with your wallet. I want your gaming wallet to remain as close to what your comfortable with as possible. My Table players i want an avg of 5 hours of play a day and slot players 3 hours we adjust the wallet based on what i need your outcomes to look like. the goal is to maintain or keep your averages. Likely i would expect 4 days of play however those numbers would work for you. Its because by the casino standard you are being comped four days so that is what its going to put you at via your averages. I would rather almost have you fly in late if its going to affect your whole deal.
    TO that end you can do all that on the first day as long as the averages work out. Its about the trip as a whole when you are coming in via regional or national.

    2. see above, your just knocking out the averages, any day does it. Happens a lot in NOLA trying to wrangle in my players during Jazz Fest or Mardi gras. I get em in a day early help them get settled on parades and times and then schedule a dinner so you rush back instead of getting lost in the quarter.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Ty

    Ty ?

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    5,499
    Location:
    Mid Ga
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    22
    That's exactly what I need!

    Hey, I just realized you joined VMB yesterday.

    Welcome to the Board!
    Ty
     
    First Trip of 2021
    • Like Like x 3
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.