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Video Poker Pay table and what to hold question

Discussion in 'Video Poker' started by AceRothstein80, Jun 18, 2021.

  1. AceRothstein80

    AceRothstein80 Low-Roller

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    Hello everyone. So I played a lot more VP on this recent trip than before. I always cruised this forum and the website ppl recomend for info. I’m a long time poker player(Hold em / stud) , so I understand what to hold for the most part, and based on info here to try to find the best pay tables.

    so the game I found my self most was usually a double bonus. I played alot at Circa and Caesars. The game had 9/6 but like most any I ever seen that payed that, only payed 1 to the two pair(as well as JOB) and they would pay higher for 4 aces or 2-4s as well. So two questions

    1. is that game a good payout table? If not, is it better to take a lower full house/flush pay to get the 2x pay on two pair?

    2. when I was dealt two pair with Aces, I would always only keep the aces. And also, if I had two pairs which one or both was J-K, I’d keep both pairs. Are those the correct plays?
     
  2. Mr Bulldops

    Mr Bulldops High-Roller

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    Double Bonus or Double Double Bonus? Either way, the best option for that downtown is at 4 Queens. Their Double Bonus is actually +EV AND you still earn points (albeit at a turtle's pace). The best options at the Stevens properties downtown is 99.17% Bonus, available at starting at 25c demon at D/GG and 50c at Circa.

    As for Caesars, well... most of theirs is terrible unless you're willing to play at $5 demon in which case they have TDB at 99.58% and JoB at 99.54%. If you haven't checked this out, this site tracks good vp at casinos: https://www.vpfree2.com/casinos/by-region/las-vegas

    On any variant outside of JoB or Bonus, I always only hold the aces when dealt 2 pairs as well. I believe that is the correct hold.
     
  3. fenway68

    fenway68 VIP Whale

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    here is a Double Double Bonus strategy...
    you can find other strategies on this site, JoB, DB, Bonus etc...
    DB I find a little tough to memorize...Job easiest, BP has a few variations, and DDB a few more on that, you could use Job for DB, bonus and DDB games (non-wild) with some small reductions in % payback so you only have to learn one.

    https://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/strategy/double-double-bonus/9-6/

    check out the sticky in the VP forum posted by @tringlomane, in the Primer there he outlines the pay-tables to look for.

    DDB eg 9/6 is best, but good luck finding it for lower denominations (less than $1) except for Downtown..9/5, 8/5 are around, personally I wouldnt play less than that. (7/5 is out there and I wont play that)

    Always play max (5) credits per spin. (Note the difference in payout for the Royal 1 unit v 5 units)
     
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  4. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Many people get fiooled into thinking Double Bonus is a good game because MOST paytables are 9/6 or better.

    In Double Bonus the most important thing to note is the straight payout. ANY Double Bonus game where the straight only pays 4 for 1 is bad. 9/6/4 is only 96.38% optimal whereas 9/6/5 is 97.81% optimal. Then comes 9/7/5 at 99.11% optimal (CET doesn't offer this in Vegas). "Full Pay" is 10/7/5 which is 100.17%.

    As far as holding only Aces with two pair, yes that's correct wihen the full house is 9 for 1 or less. If the full house is 10 for 1, you're slightly better to hold 2 pair in Double Bonus.

    Double Bonus is also a tricky game to play if you find a paytable where the flush pays 7 for 1.

    I would likely suggest Bonus or DDB first if you're trying to stray away from Jacks or Better. Especially at CET properties.
     
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  5. AceRothstein80

    AceRothstein80 Low-Roller

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    I never saw any JOB at the machines I played or looked at payed 9/6. And the machine I played at Circa was 9/6/5. It just only payed the So I figured the double would have been better. And the pays on the double we’re more appealing than the straight Bonus ones.

    I will check the links you guys posted above. Thanks
     
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  6. fenway68

    fenway68 VIP Whale

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    The payouts are “more appealing” as you go “up the chain” from JoB-BP-BPDlx-DDB-TDB-SuperDDP, however not without the price of volatility, meaning your $ won’t last you as long without some of the more premium hits early on. It’s definitely more exiting to get 4aces with a 2,3,4 (4oakwak) on DDB for a nice hit, but long run you sacrifice a unit for every 2 pair you get v BP (and you’ll get a lot more of those for sure!)

    Learn the basic JoB strategy and you can expand from there by using this on up the line with a few tweaks.
     
  7. AceRothstein80

    AceRothstein80 Low-Roller

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    yea that’s where I was wondering, is am I losing a lot more on all these one unit two pairs, vs if I played JOB and sacrificed on the full house or flush (which I think was 7-5 or worse that I seen, maybe an 8-5) . And I did get some 4 of a kinds at Circa, but always the 5-k variety, never the small numbers that payed out. And I didn’t play the game that payed kickers.
     
  8. fenway68

    fenway68 VIP Whale

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    from the sticky post courtesy of @tringlomane, you can see how all these JoB based games vary from % return based on perfect strategy vary; variance is a whole other set of numbers, but this way you can compare at least some "apples to apples" eg JoB 8/5 is not the same as Bonus 8/5 or DDB 8/5

    Bonus Poker – BP – 8/5*** (99.17%), 7/5** (98.01%), 6/5* (96.87%)

    Double Bonus (Note: Straights MUST pay 5 for 1 and NOT 4 for 1) – DB – 10/7/5**** (100.17%), 9/7/5*** (99.11%), 9/6/5** (97.81%)

    Double Double Bonus – DDB – 9/6*** (98.98%), 9/5** (97.87%), 8/5* (96.79%)

    Jacks or Better – JoB – 9/6*** (99.54%), 9/5** (98.45%), 8/6** (98.39%), 8/5* (97.30%)

    if you want the excitement of the big win and can handle the swings with a bigger bankroll and the higher risk of ruin, you play the games up the ladder, if you want to sit, have fun, get some points on your card and grind it out hoping for a royal as your big win, find a machine with a good return at with lower variance.

    hope this is helping?
     
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  9. AceRothstein80

    AceRothstein80 Low-Roller

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    Yes it did help. Based on what I see there, the DB machines I played a lot (9/6/5) were slightly better than JOB I seen. I’m pretty sure 8/5 was the best I saw for JOB. But in the future, yes I’d love to find a proper 9/6 JOB game.
     
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  10. fenway68

    fenway68 VIP Whale

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    you may find 'em at 4 Queens...I think
     
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  11. AceRothstein80

    AceRothstein80 Low-Roller

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    I would assume that 8/5 BP machine at 99% would also need to be be paying 2 units for 2 pair? That’s rare to see as well ain’t it?
     
  12. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    On the floor, yes. Bartops with 9/6 JoB are very rare now.

    Yes, the best Bonus Poker paytable that does NOT pay 2 for 1 for two pair is 94.18%.

    8/5 Bonus where 2 pair pays 2 for 1 (99.17%) is still fairly available. More available than 9/6 JoB (99.54%).
     
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  13. Dewey089

    Dewey089 VIP Whale

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    If you are downtown, take a look at the Vue bar BP games at the D casino. They are 8-5 full pay with three progressives, so you win more on 5-K quads, SF, or royal. Rated at 99.17 payback. It can get a bit noisy in the evening when the bar fills up with shouting idiots, but earlier on in the day, it is fine. And the bartender is right there.
     
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  14. AceRothstein80

    AceRothstein80 Low-Roller

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    Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I’m getting smarter by the minute reading all this! I kind of want to go to my local Harrahs in the next week or two just to look at machines and pay tables, and find a good one to play
     
  15. Dewey089

    Dewey089 VIP Whale

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    If you would enjoy learning the game at home, Win Poker is a grand tutor. This was promoted by Bob Dancer, but it was designed by Dean Zamzow who sells it on his site. I liked their customer service.
    ZSS Home Page - WinPoker Home Page (zamzone.com)

    One benefit is that you can change paytables to match the actual local machines you are going to play.
     
  16. petevegas

    petevegas Low-Roller

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