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Paris power outage

Discussion in 'LV Strip Hotels' started by MickeyMickey1975, Nov 3, 2016.

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  1. dmr

    dmr Registered Abuser

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    I am not an electrical engineer, but I work with a couple of them, and they've been discussing this on one of their forums (fora?).

    Apparently the workers damaged what was a single point of failure between the point where the commercial power and generator power come together and back each other up, and the main distribution system for the property. Therefore both commercial power and generator power were cut off. They say it's similar to the failure at Bellagio a few years ago.
     
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  2. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    You can only trust half of what the news stations report, and half of that if it is part of their first reports or "breaking news". I heard (but do not know), that the generators in fact were just fine, but the line between the generators and the rest of the system is part of what was cut.

    Again, I do not know,but it is very feasible that the generators were fine.
     
  3. h0und10

    h0und10 VIP Whale

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    yeah I can see how it would suck if you were trying to check in or out.. but if it was in the middle of the stay, it wouldn't be that bad to just leave and go hangout next door or somewhere else for the day
     
  4. Corinne

    Corinne Low-Roller

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    I was there on 3rd November when they had the power outage. I wanted to tell you how dangerous it was and the total lack of organisation for you to consider if you are staying there.

    About 9.45am I was waiting for the elevator when everything went dark. Someone said the main cable had been cut through so I thanked my lucky stars I hadn't been in the elevator (people had to be rescued) and made my way back to the room where my friend was and went in. Luckily she was still there as obviously the key cards weren't working. No phones were working and the corridor was in total darkness.

    We waited about an hour and a half before deciding we really needed to get out of the room as we hadn't a clue whether there was a fire, terrorism or anything. We had our iPhone torches and helped an older couple as well (one with a cane) down 29 flights. There were no staff anywhere to be seen, exit signage couldn't be seen as the torch wasn't strong enough to see much at all. We finally ended up in a huge storage area and saw some double doors. Those doors finally led to the outside where there were quite a few staff stood. No one had even had the sense to open the doors so it could be seen as a way out.

    I am horrified that there were no staff helping anyone or providing even a phone light on every few floors. Just nothing at all. There were fire engines outside but evidently there just as a precaution. However it must have been a possibility of they wouldn't have been necessary. I honestly think now that staff refused to go in to the hotel or there cannot be any reason (in my view) why they weren't inside helping people. It was six hours, we were told by another guest, before anyone checked each room and helped people out that couldn't do it themselves.

    No one was able to stay the night and most got accommodated elsewhere and they agreed to refund the cab fare although refused to add a couple of dollars tip on top. To start with they refused compensation and finally agreed to $200 Reward Credits although we only overhead a conversation and no one actually told us that. They still haven't.

    I am disgusted that neither us or anyone else has yet had an apology from them at all. I've asked my host to pass on my email and I still haven't had a response from anyone at all to it.

    If you think this is exaggerated then please check on TripAdvisor to see the same story from multiple people. I will never stay there again. It makes no sense that the main cable could affect the emergency supply and if it can then it is remarkably stupid. I have to wonder if there is more to this.

    End of rant. Just wanted to warn everyone and suggest you ask for a low floor if you stay there as I'm sure the problems with the emergency supply cannot have been rectified.

    Sorry guys. I posted this as a new thread without realising there was already a similar one. Thanks to whoever merged it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2016
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  5. eksantirik

    eksantirik High-Roller

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    For the people not being able to get to their rooms, safes could have been a problem. I wonder if people had access to their safes and whether they were operating. For people who couldn't get to their rooms, what was the procedure for emptying the safes?

    There could have been at least a million dollars in the safes of 3000 rooms (assuming an average of at least $300 per room).
     
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  6. bubbakitty

    bubbakitty Doing retirement again and happily so....

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    Can someone clarify those "emergency" lights found in stairwells which look like a metal box with two outdoor type lights attached. I assumed they had a battery pack and were independent. Think what a cluster it might have been if there was an emergency (fire, full out summer with no a/c, various medical needs unattended due to darkness etc) and attention needed to be immediate. What if heat had caused the breach of power and smoke / heat resulted?
    Also, with all the emergency personnel / equipment on site couldn't a small portable generator have been brought in to at least activate the intercom system so alerts could be shared?
     
    Hopefully, finally !!!
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  7. rgrif57

    rgrif57 VIP Whale

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    My concern is why would a contractor working past the point that the power is read by he generator carelessly cut lines or even worse be put in a position he could do this. A generator reads incoming power from the utility , if a glitch occurs a sensor will close on the generator starting it. Then an auto switch-over will open the main feed line from the utility and close the breaker from the generator and the generator will provide power to the service,thus preventing power from the underground lines getting back-fed. Then after power is restored for a set amount of time the auto switch over opens the generator line and then closes the utility power. . The generator reads incoming power not power in the building. This is to make sure the system doesn't have power feeding the lines possibly putting lineworkers at risk (can you tell I am a retired utility worker), also possibly blowing up a generator. Like what happened at the Bellagio it was a perfect storm of bad things.
    The batteries on the emergency signs should be plugged into an outlet and when power is not available should come on immediately, these should be tested monthly (though weekly would be better) and if they didn't come on that is inexcusable, but the generator you would not want coming on as it would power a destroyed power feed line or backfeeding the utility.................Rick
     
  8. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    Those emergency lights have batteries in them, which of course have a certain amount of time before they die. Even though they are tested to be working, they are not tested to see how long they will stay on. Each state and city has different rules on the testing. In one state, the fire marshall only hit the button for about 5 seconds to insure they worked. In another state where we had a business (not a hotel), they cut all power for 90 minutes to test the life of the batteries.

    I believe this whole thing at Paris went for many hours meaning batteries would crap out at varied times.
     
  9. mona

    mona Tourist

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    from my understanding both the utility power line and the generator line were located together and both were cut. But good question on battery backup for the emergency signs, either they didn't have them or they were dead (meaning never tested).
    I'm sure they will be making some changes as to separating the utility power and generator power lines so it can't happen again.
     
  10. rgrif57

    rgrif57 VIP Whale

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    Actually the battery should be charged from utility power but you are absolutely right that it will run out eventually. As for the lines they should all have feed going into the auto switch over. Most major consumers have 2 utility power sources feeding there breakers called double ending,so if you lose one circuit coming in, the breakers should switch over to the other circuit (being the back up) then if both are lost the generators auto switch over picks it up starts the generator and opens the utilities power and closes in the generated power. It am not sure they were utility wise double ended but the generated power never was used so the power had to be severed past the point of generation and prior to in-house breakers I would think. Either way it was a real mess and I hope after 2 different resorts have experienced it others take note and adjust plans for this ..........Rick
     
  11. Corinne

    Corinne Low-Roller

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    The emergency signs etc didn't come on for even one minute after the mains went.

    http://www.reviewjournal.com/business/casinos-gaming/power-restored-after-massive-outage-paris-las-vegas-the-strip

    This report actually says they need a better back up system which, for sure, is an understatement.

    I was trying to post a photo of the fire engines we were confronted with when we finally got out but I'm not clever enough to do it. Scary to see that and think there was an actual fire as well as no electricity.
     
  12. Corinne

    Corinne Low-Roller

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    Wouldn't you have thought that someone would have learnt a lesson from that?
     
  13. rgrif57

    rgrif57 VIP Whale

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    Exactly right the point of the auto switch over it sounds like. This is great technology but it is a major fault area. I am not an engineer either, just a chemist who was in charge of rebuilding a water plant and worked hand in hand with many electrical and mechanical engineers. It is just a shame and all should be thankful no one was killed. As far as the emergency lighting we have built in uninterrupted power supplies (UPS) hooked up to lighting. The UPS is battery powered, if for some reason we lose everything, (though the chances are slim we would), it is very needed if you are in the lower levels or upper with no windows. I hope these changes are mandated especially in stairwells. Also no lit signs should spark a nice fine...............Rick
     
  14. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    There is almost always going to be some sort of "single point of failure" for some systems. I could not anyone running TWO lines from the backup system into the main power panel. At some point, you are just stuck with reality. Another example - suppose there was a "switch" that would turn on the juice from one source vs the other. That switch is now a single point of failure.

    Is it possible to eliminate all single point of failures, or at least most? Sure, but at what point does the complexity and cost outweigh the risk?
     
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  15. shokhead

    shokhead No big spender unless eating drinking having fun!

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    The end result is nobody got hurt, there is a flaw it seems in the system and the fire dept now have their work cut out for them to update their inspections.
     
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  16. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    I am not so sure there is anything additional the fire department can do or expect in this situation. ??
     
  17. Bubbavegas

    Bubbavegas VIP Whale

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    Regarding the Emergency exit lights/signs, the average battery backup life is only 90 minutes even with NiCad and LED lighting, safety is my business.. I seriously doubt there were any code violations as Nevada has some of the strictest rules in the nation which came in after the MGM tragedy. Oh yeah and I know what lights they had even as my company supplied them as well as many in Vegas.
     
  18. rgrif57

    rgrif57 VIP Whale

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    That is great, emergency lighting signage is only meant for the beginning of the problem and that makes sense. However it was noted they did not come on, which is my point but I don't know as I wasn't there. I am just thinking that if there was a UPS in place at least the stairwells and hall ways could be lit for emergency. These systems are the ultimate fail safe.............Rick
     
  19. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    I would bet big money that they did come on, and eventually died out. If someone did not happen to exit their room for an hour or two after it happened, then they would assume and report they did not work. And, for those that think all the lights would come on and they did not - would also report the emergency lights did not come on.
     
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  20. rgrif57

    rgrif57 VIP Whale

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    I would not bet against you on that....
     
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