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"overcomped" ... consequences? Venetian/Palazzo specific

Discussion in 'Comps' started by XKxRome0ox, Jan 16, 2017.

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  1. XKxRome0ox

    XKxRome0ox Low-Roller

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    My monthly offers from V/P are typically 3 nights comped, $500 freeplay, $200 dining credit
    Went for a short trip this past weekend. drove on fri night and arrived past midnight, left sunday morning.
    Offer was 3 nights, $500 freeplay, $200 dining credit, and 2 tickets to BAZ

    (by the way, I enjoyed BAZ. started off a little slow but picked up with a lot of great songs, singing and dancing)

    I typically play enough to earn some backend credit for room charges
    however, last visit I was with a new girlfriend who doesn't gamble ... so i barely gambled (not quite 2 hours total)
    Charged about $300 to the room for some meals
    Host told me I had been "over comped at about $930" for this trip

    I had 4 stays at V/P last year and the level of play was never an issue
    so i don't think i'll lose my offers just because of this trip ... but i just wanted some feedback from others

    have you experienced or heard about losing offers from V/P?
    am i going to get dinged on my next trip when i ask for backend comps?
     
  2. easy_money

    easy_money High-Roller

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    In short, you low played and the host didn't cover your charges. Were you expecting different results from 2 hours of play? If you provide your 2 hours of play stats, can better gauge if the $930 over comp is valid. Unless you were gambling $1k a hand with table games or significant coin-in with slots, considering 2 hours of play and the upfront comps you got, it looks about right. Remember, you have to play off your room and any upfront comps first before any backend comps are warranted.

    IRT your offers, if this was one time thing, offer wise, it shouldn't affect you in the short term, but long term this low play trip will eventually catch up with you. For your next trip, if you play up to the level that would cover your upfront comps at least and then if there's leftover room for backend comps, should be able to suffice. Unless hosts, tells you that you may have to play off your last trip too. Depends on your relationship with host. I usually actually get under comped on most trips and I go solo a lot. And when I go with friends or a group of people, I get overcomped, but that's because I;m usually a cheap date and have a relationship with hosts.

    I wouldn't worry too much about future trips, unless you plan to low play again.
     
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  3. VegasDave

    VegasDave Addicted

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    Thanks for the reply easy_money. Maybe someone can answer the dilemma I have with this? Say Romeo goes and over plays during his last 4 stays before this one and there were left over comps from those stays, as I understand it, if he didn't use them, they disappear. So 4 trips he had $1k left each trip in comps that weren't used and now he goes and underplays by the $1k he just did. Would the previous trips actually play a part now, or did they actually "disappear"?

    I guess the main question is, in the scenario easy_money has here, you are not rewarded if you overplay the previous trips and are undercomped, but the minute you underplay and are overcomped, the casino host starts keeping a record and could potentially make you play out those comps the next trip as well? It probably comes down to every casino being different, but I may be in the scenario a trip or two over the summer and would be good information.
     
  4. XKxRome0ox

    XKxRome0ox Low-Roller

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    please do not confuse this thread for one of those complaining threads about not getting comped when someone lowplays
    i clearly stated that i barely gambled
    so everything went as expected


    my old host no longer works at V/P so i stopped by the host desk and talked to the person there during the trip
    and was introduced to a new host (hostess?)
    the next trip should be a more gambling-centered trip so i'm not worried about maintaining my play level
    but i am curious if i have to dig myself out of this recent trip where i was overcomped
     
  5. easy_money

    easy_money High-Roller

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    Dave, before I joined VMB years ago, I used to have the same exact questions and dilemma. I ran into the same situation where a host had told me I was overcomped. Like any newbie when first starting, I gave in and paid the remaining charges that the host wouldn't take off. Then after I learned more about how comps work and how theo plays into it, I became more knowledgeable and kept track of my own play and also ALWAYS ask the pitboss and at end of trip ask my host what my stats were. This helped me better gauge what comps I would be warranted in the back end. Yes, hosts may and can keep track, but so can "you/we". If you were undercomped several trips this is where the a host relationship comes in. Even if you don't have a relationship and kept decent track of your play over several trips, this is where you negotiate or work with the hosts to come to terms and find middle ground.

    For example, I usually get undercomped because I usually go to LV/AC solo. I can only eat so much and spend at the spa. I guesstimate I usually leave somewhere around a few hundred dollars upwards to 1k of comps in the backend. Now when I go with friends/family, I obviously spend and charge more to room where sometimes I'm overcomped. The first time my host brought up being overcomped, after I became knowledgeable and more aware of my comps, I provided my play for past previous trips and what comps I left on the table. The host actually looked shocked that I was able to provide actual numbers. In the end, the host gave in and took off all my charges. Never had a problem again like that. Of course given my play has to actually correspond or cover everything either past or present trips.

    Host have bosses they have to report to. If they overcomp you, their bosses will ask them. This is where they can justify why they overcomped you. I would think and assume most casinos/hosts operate the same way. I believe or want to believe we as a player have more control over situations like this if we arm ourselves with the knowledge. Hope this answered your question.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017
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  6. easy_money

    easy_money High-Roller

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    Absolutely not, though my post may have been indicating that I thought it was? This is what sucks about words on the forum/internet. Can't differentiate tones. :ssst: But no, I was merely just stating and asking in general and didn't want to assume you understood the system.

    If you were generally a player that always played up to comps you received, which you stated you usually earned enough backend comps to cover charges, I wouldn't see it as a problem. So you should bring up your past/previous trips with your new host or at least have a discussion about previous play. See how you did previous trips so you have an idea and maybe even your host if she hasn't reviewed it. Since you have a new host, she may have not reviewed your previous play, and plus doesn't have a relationship with you yet. In her point of view, she's taking you on as a new client, though your past play may be strong, this trip and her first trip taking you on, who's to say you might not short play her again. It's a give and take.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2017
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  7. VegasDave

    VegasDave Addicted

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    This is great info. Thanks for the insight, I will try to keep coherent enough to keep track or at least call back post trip.
     
  8. XKxRome0ox

    XKxRome0ox Low-Roller

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    so i went back to palazzo earlier in April...
    actually won a decent amount there
    but the number of hours was still lacking
    and i can already see that my email offers have dropped off quite a bit

    what is the best way to remedy this?
    do i stay elsewhere and just gamble at V/P so that i'm not taking any comps?
    will one trip like that bring me back into the "good graces" of V/P?
    i really think i'm losing out because my old host is gone and the new hostess doesn't really care about me since our first encounter was my lowplaying weekend
     
  9. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    The math never works out on this. If you like V/P and like the host relationship, stay, and pay for what they won't comp. Play how you like and if its enough the comps will come back.

    If you just like the comps or the best deal possible, move along.

    Giving them a better deal to "get your offers back" is a massive negative expectation game. Being overcomped is a good thing. It is their problem, not yours.
     
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  10. XKxRome0ox

    XKxRome0ox Low-Roller

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    thank you for that
    you're so right
    i had just gotten used to the past 2+ years of good comp offers
    but i definitely paid my dues to V/P over that time from my losing trips

    if the offers dry up, so be it
    i'll just stick to Caesars and mlife
     
  11. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    I haven't stayed at V/P in a few years, but judging by how MGM, CET and Cosmo seem to operate when you have a host:

    As far as offers - one regular play level trip should pretty much put you right back at your usual level of offers. It can be a matter of the frequency of the offer cycle that determines how long your offers take to get back to normal. So if you go every month and have one low trip right after a cycle begins, and the casino does its offers quarterly, you may never even see them drop.

    You can bet the casino keeps a running comp balance on you, so for back-end, it wouldn't surprise me at all if you had to dig yourself out of a hole, not that you should overplay to even it out in one trip, but that if you have a big negative balance, you may get denied back-end for a trip or two or more until your comp balance gets back to zero. Similarly, even though conventional wisdom is that any back-end you leave on the table is gone forever, we also see stories about hosts either proactively (or otherwise) overcomping on trips when a player was regularly undercomped on previous ones, just like @easy_money said.
     
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  12. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    Enjoy the over comp.
    They will make it right during future trips.
     
  13. Geogran

    Geogran Whooo. Whooo.

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    I agree. Our mlife host has done this for us over the years where some trips we played way way over and left comps on the table (because she would mention hey, next time do the spa or a show to use more comps) and some trips where we didn't really low roll but our play definitely didn't cover the comps, like our last one in March. Our host has always covered us anyway, in her words, "I know you'll be back and it will even out". When I've asked her about it she said, 'don't worry, I'll always let you know if your play and spend no longer matches what I can comp and we'll work it out". We have a fairly long history with this host (3-5 trips a year for over 9 years) so I'm sure she has some leeway in justifying occasional overcomps. I don't keep up with coin in or theo, etc during my stay and figure it will work out, lol. Although I do look at coin in online once I'm home.....not too crazy about those parenthesis though....:whistle:
     
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  14. VegasDave

    VegasDave Addicted

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    Thanks for coming back to this guys, all good information!
     
  15. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa Front Line Winner

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    I've had a couple trips to Palazzo where I didn't play enough to cover my room, food and free play. It did not really harm my offers though.

    On such trips I knew I wasn't going to catch any back end comps.

    One thing I'm coming to realization on is I hate feeling obligated to play up to a certain level. So I'll take what is available to me. If they dry up and I still love staying somewhere I'll pay upfront and then see what gets taken off at the end.

    I know how I play and that's enough to generate offers and whatnot. I'm also pretty easy when it comes to comps. Room and food/bev and I'm happy.

    Palazzo is a place I'd pay to stay at. So even if my offers went to nil I know I'd end up staying there still. If I played enough to warrant comps, cool. If not then no worries because I planned on that.

    Just do what makes you feel comfortable.
     
  16. Hoofy7

    Hoofy7 VIP Whale

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    Agreed! I love Palazzo. Are you in town for Spring Fling Rocky? If so, are you coming to the No Confusion and the Fusion meet tomorrow night at 8pm? Hosts is setting us up in the Palazzo HL lounge with a designated server bringing the Key Lime Pie martinis.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
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  17. FuzzyDiceCraps

    FuzzyDiceCraps VIP Whale

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    I have a lot less experience than many on here, but let me throw in my .02. I have found that offers are impacted following a "slow play" trip much more quickly than they are following a "heavy play" trip. So while casinos are quick to lower the offers, they are slower to bounce back up. Just my (limited) experience.

    Last year we noticed our offers from V/P were diminishing slightly. We could still get our room comped for 5 nights upon request, but our free play and/or credit numbers were dropping. It was likely due in part to the fact we were spending more time on the strip, but I've since heard that others are finding their numbers dropping as well. We made a concerted effort on a couple trips to focus more play with V/P and it didn't really improve our offers that much - and it made our trips less enjoyable. Rather than playing where we wanted when we wanted, and how we wanted we were forcing ourselves to play that extra hour or roll or bet at V/P - and consequently we just didn't have as much fun.

    Now we still use V/P as our home base, and we play enough there to ensure the offers come (because we DO want to give them about 50% of our play anyway), but the rest we just do what we want with. If that means we stop getting free play entirely, so be it. We love V/P and will stay there as long as we get free rooms, but there are plenty of other properties with great rooms we can use if we need to.
     
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  18. JeJas

    JeJas VIP Whale

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    I agree with @Chuck2009x, particularly if you have a host, they will keep a running balance on you.
    That means you have to even out the low play trips before getting decent backend comps.
     
  19. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa Front Line Winner

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    Wish I could be there but alas I won't arrive until Saturday morning. Hope you all have a great time! May you hit big and enjoy your martinis!
     
  20. RockyBalboa

    RockyBalboa Front Line Winner

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    Adding another data point;

    During MM I only played one night before I was called back home for some work stuff.

    My FP and F&B was increased to $500 and $200. I played for four hours? Maybe it was six. I don't recall the total time but my average bet was in the $250 range.

    Nice to see that when I got home today. It was in a mailer from my host.
     
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