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Table Games Newbie Craps Help

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Bassman13, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. Bassman13

    Bassman13 Tourist

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    Played craps for 1st time last years trip to Vegas and loved it. Guy told me to play pass line first then play 4,6,8,9. I think it was $31 each bet. Had no idea what I was doing but ended up winning $725. Coming to Vegas again last week of April and looking forward to trying craps again. My question is this, is this a smart way to play? If not, what should I do New to craps and love the action.
     
  2. Golfer

    Golfer Low-Roller

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    Never play unless you have at least 10X what your per roll bet is going to be. Adjust either the bankroll, or bet to ensure this.

    This in my opinion, is the first, and most important absolute truism of craps.
     
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  3. Imaginos

    Imaginos Tourist

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    I'm not sure why specifically the 4, 6, 8 and 9. 6 and 8 are the most likely numbers to be rolled aside from 7. 5 and 9 are next, followed by 4/10. On a place bet (most likely what you're doing) you're going to win more money on the 4/10, less on the 5/9 and the least on 6/8. So I'm not sure why he specifically picked those numbers.

    If you want some good intros to craps and some basic strategies, check out Color Up on YouTube.
     
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  4. FullPay

    FullPay When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro

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    I love this question, because the absolute worst thing that can happen is you experience a new game in a casino and win. You apparently dove into the deep end of the pool and liked the swim. I would pull back, google search pass line and odds, and learn what conservative play is. Then branch out about laying bets, because I can tell you one thing for true: sevens happen a lot, like more than any other number, it seems.
     
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  5. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    Most of the time, the point will be either 6,8, 5 or 9; (18 of 24 possible point-setting rolls).
    In my view, the best play when that holds true is to take odds behind your pass-line bet and the minimum place bets ($6 & $5 or $12 & $10) on the remaining 3 numbers of those four.
    I only place (or buy) the 4 or 10 after I've made 4 or 5 wins from those original numbers.

    On those times when the point is 4 or 10, I take single-odds behind the line & place the 6-8-5-9.
    When I've won an amount from place bets (cumulatively) that is equal to or more than my total bets, (about $50 or so), I start to press 1 unit following each place bet win (pressing evenly on "like" numbers).

    Example: The point is 5. So, I have $15 total on the line/odds, $24 on the 6/8 & $10 on the 9....$49 at risk. If the shooter then rolls two 6s, an 8 and a 9, I've won over $50. So, on the very next rolled 6, I will press both the 6 & 8 up to $18 each. On the next 6 or 8 rolled, I'll take the winnings. Next one? I'll press the 9 to $20. Repeat until I'm up about $200 or so (4x my original amount bet)...then I'll take all of my place bets down & wait for the 5.

    Now - full-disclosure...I only have the discipline to do this (take my place bets down) about half the time.
    :beer:
     
    Unscheduled Spring Trip!! (...& I have my required bankroll now!!)
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  6. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    Agree. The hardest thing for me and a lot of people is to say these three words: "Take me down."
     
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  7. AyDee

    AyDee is getting too old for this

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    Sounds like we got another one boys, for the old timers, or just me, do you recall your BR, average bet, and time played?
    I'd guess you got a beginners luck hot roll.

    As far as that strategy, it is a heavy action way to hop on all the numbers, does well during good times, hurts bad during cold.
    I see a lot of people taking ALL the numbers every roll. I don't see how they get out of the downdrafts.

    lesseee. maybe $32, $12 on 6 & 8, $ 5 on 4(sure not 5?)&9 for 32?

    The system I just started trying that I picked up from color up is pass (actually they skip it but thats my adaptation), 6&8, field, then if field hits go 5&9.
    Pass and 6&8 would be a lighter start in general, IMO...

    But strats are like opinions and assholes, everybody has one.

    Have fun and learn from experience what works for you. I like action too and pay for it usually.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2020
    hopefully, we can make it.
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  8. Big Tip

    Big Tip VIP Whale

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    I don't.
    I think about it; "this would be a smart time to come down," but I just never do.
    It's such bad karma. I always think the rest of the table would immediately stare at me with anger for giving up on the shooter.
    AND, the hardest thing to get past when making that decision..."what if the shooter keeps going another 20 minutes?" lol
     
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  9. PressThe5n9

    PressThe5n9 Low-Roller

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    @Bassman13 - welcome to the club! I don’t believe there’s a “smart” way to play craps. People play many different ways - some play by the math of the game; some play to have fun; some play cautious: and some play for high risk/reward. Just play within your limits and enjoy your time at the tables!

    I’m in full agreement with this. While you can find many people talking craps on YT, Color Up is one of the best. He explains the strategy and then shows it on a live roll. Win or lose, it shows the potential of the play and allows players to learn from different scenarios. I really enjoy his “Dice Advice” series from taking viewer input on strategies for real-time play without actually gambling upfront yourself first.

    Truth be told! Hard but powerful words.

    Easier to get newbies hooked with a hot roll! Great advice given: have fun and learn. It’s nice to win money, but a hard lesson to learn can be to expect it to be good/great all the time.
     
    IP Biloxi - Youngest Son’s Senior Spring Break
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  10. SloggingScotsman

    SloggingScotsman Tourist

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    Topcard, anyone....can you help me get my mind around your comment please?

    this has been stewing my noodle for years, and I know it goes against all advice, including wizard of Vegas’s.

    Conventional wisdom (and encouraged by casinos I believe.....red flag right there) is that the single best thing you can do in craps is take full odds, as that reduces your percentage house edge. I get that.

    But in absolute terms, the casino, whether you take odds or no odds, is going to take the same physical amount of money from you, either way, in theo terms. Ie there is absolutely no advantage to the player in absolute, pure hard dollar terms.

    The only difference is that you will bust your bankroll quicker by taking odds, making it a shorter and likely less profitable game for you (gambling...profitable...in the same sentence I know :goofy: ). And infinitely more profitable for the casino.

    I do get that some love the adrenaline rush of the risk etc. But still odds just make your wins and losses bigger, ultimately leading to you spending more money as you bankroll out.

    What am I missing? Where has my thought process gone wrong?
     
  11. PressThe5n9

    PressThe5n9 Low-Roller

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    The way I see it, most people quote the reduced House Advantage percent based upon full odds over the long term (which is what the casino is doing). We as players are only in over the short term so variance should play a bigger factor in thinking rather than long term HA.

    Lets say by placing full odds on a 3-4-5 table, and the point is 4. I have a $5 PL and $15 odds. I’m either going to win $30 in my odds or lose it all. That’s variance. The only difference is there’s no HA built in to the true odds since they are paying 2:1 rather than 9:5 on a place bet.
     
    IP Biloxi - Youngest Son’s Senior Spring Break
  12. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

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    And many times, they do! I will sometimes digress my bets after they have been pressed to high amounts. I would go from a $120 placed 6 or 8 down to $90, then $60, then $30. And I still regret doing so after witnessing how long they rolled after the decision.

    Lately I haven't been taking down my bets, just letting it ride until the inevitable 7-out. I did incorporate a 2nd win then press then collect, press, collect, etc. strategy lately. Before it was just press, press, press...…!
     
  13. csu

    csu Tourist

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    I think you get the gist of it, but it's important to remember that a bet with no house edge doesn't mean you're going to win. It's a flip of a coin. Yes, it has no house advantage, but you still need variance on your side in order to win. You could easily lose money, over the short term (which almost all of us gamble over what would be considered the short term), on bets that have a positive expected value. A better way to think of the pass line and odds is to consider the total amount of money you're willing to wager on a point being made, then do what you can to have as much of that total consist of the odds portion of the amount wagered (IE, don't bet $10 pass line and $10 odds on a $5 table). I wouldn't bet extra money (beyond what my bankroll can support) on the odds just because it has no advantage.
     
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  14. julia

    julia (was miss_sonja)

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    Have you read the sticky post on craps in this forum? It's a great source of info.

    Craps is now my favourite table game, but the first time I played I had no idea what I was doing and lost quickly by betting the dealer's recommendations. After playing with the hosts of the podcast "You Can Bet On That", I have settled into a strategy that works for my comfort zone. I'm a $5 player; might try $10 on my next trip.

    $5 on the passline
    $5 odds (single odds)
    after a point, place the 6 & 8 for $6 each (unless one of those is the point)
    occasional come bet if I'm feeling it

    So each roll, the most that I would have on the table is $27. This gives me enough action that I feel part of the game.

    I stop either when my brain is getting tired, or when I've lost just over half my buy in, or when I've won twice my buy in. Usually the tired brain is what wins. I also don't drink alcohol when I play craps; it's still a new enough game to me that there's enough to keep track of without a fuzzy brain.

    Also, tip your dealers! You can tip them less than the table min, and you can make bets for them--they definitely appreciate it.
     
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  15. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    OK... since I always want a bet on the 4 most-likely numbers to hit (5-6-8-9), and one of those will likely be the point, I try to take odds on that point comparable to what I would be place-betting on that number's companion.
    Example:
    I bet $5 on the line. The point rolled is 6. I put $10 behind the line (I now have a $15 six). I also place bet the 8 for $12. I make $14 if an 8 is rolled. I make $19 if a 6 is rolled.
    The 6 is paying more since the $10 odds pays "true", as well as the fact that I've bet $3 more on the 6 than the 8. So, forgetting the extra $3, I make $16 on the 6 versus $14 on the 8.

    The same type of math works for the 5 & 9.
    If you only want to place-bet $6 (6 & 8) or $5 (5 & 9), then just take single odds behind the pass-line.
    Using the same example, your $6 eight will pay $7 & your $10 six (minus the $4 extra you've bet) will pay $8. (You'll notice that's exactly half of the above example).

    I always try to keep my numbers bet closely with their companion number... I just get an added benefit when the point hits with odds versus the place-bet win.

    I hope that helps.
     
    Unscheduled Spring Trip!! (...& I have my required bankroll now!!)
  16. topcard

    topcard Older than the Stardust!

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    ....oh, and one more thing: Once the point is set, your pass-line bet is now a negative expectation bet. A 7 is more likely to come up than any point, yet you're only paid even-money on the line if your point does hit. The "odds" bet helps you to offset that disadvantage.
     
    Unscheduled Spring Trip!! (...& I have my required bankroll now!!)
  17. SloggingScotsman

    SloggingScotsman Tourist

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  18. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

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    All based on the roll of the dice. Any system will work if the dice is in your favor, and won't work if the dice isn't. There are numerous books on "systems" and how to play but if there was a true system that works everyone would be using that system.

    As others have mentioned, I don't understand playing the 4 and 9. Usually people will play the 5 and 9 or 4 and 10 since they (5/9, 4/10) have the same percentage of winning. But whatever works for you....

    As for me, I usually just play the pass and odds, then place the 6 and 8 and then play a come bet with odds. As the table gets hotter or the shooter starts hitting certain numbers I then start playing those numbers.

    Bassman, you could be in a world of hurt if you hit a bad streak. Not sure if you're saying that you bet $31 for EACH number but if you do then you have $150 or so on the table at any time. If you hit a bad streak of 3 shooters 7-out quickly then you are out $450.

    You were lucky to be on a good table, sometimes you are on bad tables and you lose just as much or even more. Money management and learning how to walk away is something worth learning.
     
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  19. blissfulignoramus

    blissfulignoramus Low-Roller

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    I think the 4,6,8,9 (or 4,5,6,8 or 5,6,8,10, etc) idea isn’t so bar. It can give you some nice payoffs when you’re lucky, and if you’re a casual once a year casino gambler that’s what you might be looking for. The 4/10 is a bad bet but it’s not the worst bet on the table, that’s for sure.

    And playing the pass line odds does the same thing, with no house advantage.

    But yeah: the rush you get from that first big craps win — you will probably see a lot of losses before you experience that again. Always walk to the table expecting to lose, hoping to win.
     
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  20. cjcjcj

    cjcjcj High-Roller

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    Does it though? Adding odds increases your total action whereas your total negative expectation $-wise stays the same? As a % the disadvantage is lower but your $-wise negative expectation to the casino is the same. All it does is increase your variance?