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Is Vegas Getting Better for Anyone?

Discussion in 'Misc. Vegas Chat' started by andyg99, Nov 29, 2016.

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  1. billduhcat

    billduhcat Low-Roller

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    I sometimes let the one bad Vegas day overwrite the 3-4 fun Vegas days in my mind and that starts the "take a Vegas break" thoughts going.

    Earlier this year did a trip for the super bowl. Had a great time sat-mon. Got killed gambling + caught a cold on Tuesday = omg never again.
     
  2. ShelbyCharger

    ShelbyCharger MIA

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    Been going to Viva since 1981. It is still my choice place. I do comment on the greed of the hotels. I just returned. 6th time his year, if that tells you anything. It just seems in the last 2 years they have found new revenue needs. Here is a new thread. What should we pay for in Vegas next.
     
  3. Lovegas95

    Lovegas95 High-Roller

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    What can I share here that hasn't already been said? I'm probably talking just to hear myself talk but this is a valid question for us all.
    The first of my 7 trips was in 2007. I came out from the east coast to visit friends and fell hard for Vegas. It didn't help that my first trip was a winning trip. I even hit my first handpay in McCarran on the way home! The sheer size of the properties, the sensory overload and the freebies given away were mind-boggling for a newbie. I came home with t-shirts, used casino cards and an overall experience I can only describe as addictive.
    Now THAT'S the Vegas I miss and I apparently caught the tail end of it. The New Frontier, Stardust, Riviera and others are missed. Still, with all the changes I keep coming back because I fully understand that I cannot get this rush anyplace else. I agree that the increase in fees, moronism, callous disregard for the average visitor coupled with decreases in customer service and bad gaming parameters feels like we're past the point of no return. Guess what, we are!
    Nothing stays the same. 5 years from now we'll wish for what we currently have at the rate we're going. Me? I'll continue to come and make the best of it until my attention span has me move on to something else. The Vegas get-togethers make it better. The wristbands are cool. A family of likeminded souls who long for the next Vegas trip despite all the pissing, moaning and slinging snot over days long gone gives me the support I need when I think I'm the only one!
    Besides, the drought might fix all our "problems " anyway.
    Great thread OP.
     
  4. topcard

    topcard Re-Open Vegas!

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    stackin... I don't really have a true "local" (I live in the DFW area), but Shreveport/Bosier is about a 3-hour drive for me. But for sake of my point, let's pretend that I lived 20 minutes away.
    Why wouldn't I go there instead of Vegas, if it was "only" about the gambling?
    Because you're right...it's NOT just the gambling (even though that's the "reason" I go)... it's the variety & quantity of casinos... it's the comped meals & drinks... it's the "free" rooms... it's the 24-hour access to...well, everything... it's not having to watch how much I drink (since I'd be driving to/from the "local")... it's the ease & availability of multiple local transportation options... it's the carnival-like atmosphere... it's at least a little bit because of the more-plentiful "eye candy"... it's the planning & anticipation of going... it's that unique feeling when you first come out of the Jet-Way into McCarran... it's the "history" of the place... it's the 'party-like' atmosphere only possible when so many are on the "same page"... it's the table-game camaraderie that seems to be unique to Vegas & that you would rarely (if ever) see at any local...it's the freedom to be completely spontaneous & not have to "plan" or time the trip's "activities" (except for when you have to leave back to the airport :( )

    So - yeah - I'm one of those that goes "just to gamble"... and, so far anyway, no place else can compete - because you're right - it's NOT just about gambling!
    :beer:
     
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  5. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    Speaking as someone with gambling run by Vegas based companies 20 minutes away, the reason Vegas is still attractive is they can offer games that the local jurisdictions don't allow and they have free drinks. There have fewer restrictions on the kinds of casinos they want to build. But you have some states taking away some of the limitations that separate them from Vegas like not requiring a water location or not limiting the number of gaming positions. They are also getting more aggressive in using their players clubs to move their players to their other properties like CET used to do. And they are figuring out the retail end of it. They are never going to replicate Vegas but as long as Vegas refuses to acknowledge it's problems in the casino are much bigger than drawing younger customers and doesn't stay aggressive in making sure their casino experience is superior, there are going to be some jurisdictions that will offer something close enough.
     
  6. stackinchips

    stackinchips VIP Whale

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    This is exactly the type of post I was referencing before. EVERYTHING you just mentioned, has little true impact on 99% of Vegas visitors, even the ones who claim their SOLE reason for going to Vegas is to gamble. You could literally, pick up a casino from Vegas and plunk it down in Des Moines/Orlando/Seattle/Nashville/etc. and it won't ever truly compete with Vegas. It simply CANNOT replicate what Vegas has. Let's be honest, most of the complaining comes from the low roller players, because that's where the majority of the "cuts" have been felt. Most of these people are paying $300-500 per person in airfare, and in many cases another few hundred for hotel rooms in order to get to Vegas. So if it's truly SOLELY about gambling for these folks, and the local can offer a truly comparable product (or even close enough), then let's really look at this:

    Let's say they play 16 hours over a trip at BJ for $10/hand. 60X$10*.02*16=$192. That's what the bad rules "cost" them over a trip. So again I ask, if these rules are so terrible and it's going to be the death of gambling in Vegas, then why on earth are these people paying $500-1500 just to GET to Vegas, if they could get the same thing down the road? Furthermore why are they willing to pay that amount just to show up, if ~$200 will make them run for the hills? The answer is simple, and it's that Vegas is completely unique and the experience isn't replicated by sitting around a BJ or craps table in Cleveland or Iowa.
     
  7. leo21

    leo21 VIP Whale

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    Here's the thing: A lot of the complaints in this thread and others are strip specific. If you notice, a decent percentage of gamblers on this board have moved downtown or off strip. For those of us who have, we are still getting comps without resort or parking fees and are enjoying better drinks and drink service. And airfare deals have been better so it's not a huge cost to come back. If the issues on the strip transfer to other parts of the Valley, we will see what happens. Perhaps the retail aspects of Vegas are attractive enough for Vegas to keep their repeat gambler business, perhaps they lose it. I don't know. I just know that it would be nice for the CEOs to not treat that customer like leeches for a change.
     
  8. ken2v

    ken2v 200,000 and counting

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    Tiny Holiday Inn Express Rooms in NYC that go for Bellagio rack rates aren't CEO-leeching? Spend how many tens of thousands on a vehicle that costs thousands to produce?
     
  9. ShelbyCharger

    ShelbyCharger MIA

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    English please!
     
  10. stackinchips

    stackinchips VIP Whale

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    I don't disagree with that, but your first post only talked about how Vegas is going to lose gamblers to local casinos across the country because they have better rules or have started to offer better comps. As much as anyone may complain or try to convince others that the ONLY reason they go to Vegas is to gamble, it's simply not true. If maximizing your gambling dollar were so important, you wouldn't go $1k+ in the hole to get to Vegas when you could do the same thing with a few gallons of gas.

    As to your quoted post above, I agree. As topcard and I had mentioned, most of the longing for days gone by on the strip is still readily available downtown or elsewhere in the Valley. And in those casinos you can still get comped pretty well for the level of play that used to get you comped on the strip 30 years ago. The problem is that people want the comps and costs to be what they were 30 years ago at joints like the Stardust, Sahara , Boardwalk, Riv, etc. but want to stay on the strip for the new amenities like the shows, dining, shopping, and sights like Bellagio Fountains and Conservatory. The problem is that those all need to be paid for somehow. The complaining and waxing poetic about the good ole days is just wanting your cake and eat it too. If you just want cheap rooms, little or no fees, cheap food, and good gambling rules, simply stay downtown and they have it in spades. Of course you won't have immediate access to modern strip amenities like the spas, nice pools, shopping, and aforementioned free sites, but again it's simply a choice to be made. Either be willing to pay up or settle for the amenities of 30 years ago downtown.
     
  11. Craps_Player

    Craps_Player Low-Roller

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    Great Post. Enjoyed reading this one. It's something I should also take some advice from. I've been a similar amount of times to you, but I'm 'hooked' on the comps and the illusion it creates in the free room(s), F&B and show tickets. I'm in Vegas during most of April as well (Convention and Family holiday). As I travel from Hong Kong, I usually make this a big trip for me. The urge to play for ratings however is getting ridiculous however.
     
  12. Craps_Player

    Craps_Player Low-Roller

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    This is a true statement. It's really simple. Vegas has changed. No doubt about it. It needs to adapt to survive. Less high rollers from Asia are going over to play high stakes. Significant numbers of high rollers. Example - Macau's gaming turnover is said to be more than 7 times the revenue of Vegas gaming. Singapore has two casinos but the MBS is the main one, and that casino alone probably equals the turnover of Vegas gaming currently. These are serious numbers. So, Vegas needs to adapt in order to continue it's growth and the sheer volume of hotels and support costs that go with it. I think it's done it pretty well.

    I play Craps. Everywhere. From Australia to Macau, Singapore, UK, to Vegas. Nothing...I mean nothing, compares to playing in Vegas. Not even close. Macau, the mecca of gaming, only has 7 craps tables in all the casinos currently (1 in Parisian, 1 in the Plaza four Seasons, 1 in the Venetian, 1 in the Himalayan Holiday Inn, 2 in the City of Dreams (Crown, Hard Rock and Mandarin Oriental) and 1 in the MGM Central). Singapore has 3 operating craps tables in MBS, and 1 in the Sentosa Resorts. UK London has 4 tables (2 in the Hippodrome Leicester Square, 1 in the Grovesnor, 1 in a casino in Stratford East London). Australia probably has 3 tables in the country. Vegas? I think the Bellagio Casino alone has more tables than Macau.....

    What about Vegas? Macau DOES NOT compare to Vegas. It may replicate the buildings. It absolutely cannot capture the essence that is Vegas. The diversity in this town is simply not matched anywhere else. Oh, and I'd love to see anywhere in the world that can currently absorb massive conventions at a global level and spit them out like they aren't happening.

    As for comps...In Vegas I receive Suite room(s), plus all F&B and shows. In Singapore, I may get 50% off my room rate if I'm lucky to have a letter that entitles me to a maximum of a 4 day stay, otherwise it's US$300 to stay there a night (for a basic room). I may earn enough points for about US$100 in food. In Macau, I can get a free room, but I have to really play for food 'vouchers' and I'm not even sure I qualify as a low-roller in that town. I play to the same level (wagers). Singapore is a city in it's own right and so does not swing to the tune of the gamblers. Macau does. Walking from casino to casino, there is no buzz. There's no diversity. No excitement. No fun. You come to Macau to Gamble.

    I don't think it's fair to compare 2016 to 1970. The world moves on. In 2006 there was a new micro/nano storage card launched at 128MB. It was cutting edge and changed everything about photo and file storage on portable devices. Today, in 2016, you now get 128GB. OK, that's technology and it gets better. Well, the same goes for living standards. They rise over time (look at land prices, wages, inflation, and other economic factors that push pricing up generally). US$5 in 1970 is not US$5 in 2016, and in fact it's not even close.

    I do think it's fair to compare Vegas to the rest of the world. In 1970, Vegas had it all. I don't believe there was any real alternative at the time, and it could afford to do all the things it did. In the 1980's the corporates moved in and started a level of investment that was staggering. Let's not forget the MGM's investment in the Center, and how it nearly broke itself in achieving it. I recall it had to sell Treasure Island (cheap) in order to continue the funding for the completion. In 2016, there are plenty of places that gamblers can now go to. Even Japan has passed a controversial bill to allow casinos to operate in Japan (Osaka mooted to be the first port of call for a Casino operation). Philippines have a mega resort from Sentosa Gaming being built ($2bn). There is real competition for the players. And so, Vegas has lost its edge as offering a monopoly on gaming. I don't believe it can afford to give away the perks it used to. The money simply isn't there to cover the loss leader marketing activities. So, it has to derive income from elsewhere, and create new commercial opportunities to continue to grow.

    If I wanted to play House Advantage bets on the craps table, then I'd better stick to my original home town of London UK, because they give 33-1 on a hard 6, and 176 to 1 on the All Tall/All Small make 'em all bet. 7.5 - 1 on Any Crap. Australia also gives the same odds I think. I'd play in Vegas any day.

    Vegas may have lost some of the allure that it once had, relative to the world. Today, it has to compete in other areas to cover it's overheads and profit. What you cannot deny however is the simple fact (going back to the comments posted above) that Vegas does it a whole lot better still than any other gaming experience in the world.

    I live in Hong Kong. Macau is a ferry ride away, and next year it will be a car drive over a bridge that's being built over the sea to connect Hong Kong to Mainland China and Macau (yes..that's a long bridge. At least a 20 minute drive over the sea on a bridge that will be subject to Typhoons). Given that fact, if I was asked where I would go to play craps and have fun (with or without the family) for a week solid, I'd pay US$2000 for the flight ticket and fly to Vegas. It's not even a close consideration.
     
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  13. LondonCalling

    LondonCalling Low-Roller

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    Excellent summary Craps Player. I too play craps at the Hippodrome in London, but nothing quite compares to the Vegas experience. Even if we are being nickled and dimed and even if the exchange rate sucks for UK visitors, Vegas still offers a great value for money experience.
     
  14. Jaygee77

    Jaygee77 Low-Roller

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    I love the passion from everyone on this thread. Maybe that sums up the Vegas appeal. There's an energy there that is unmatched anywhere else I've been.

    Naturally, my ideal Vegas was the Vegas I got to see the first few times I was out there, all during my 20s. Perhaps the reason it doesn't hold up as well now is because I am not as much fun in my 30s as I was in my 20s. I suppose marriage, parenthood, and the overall aging process will do that to you.
     
  15. Craps_Player

    Craps_Player Low-Roller

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    Yeah...Pipe and Slippers. Next we will be complaining about the noise at midnight from being too close to the lift....
     
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