1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Table Games Is 6:5 REALLY that big of a deal?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Courtney, Feb 15, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Headache 21

    Headache 21 i don't wanna grow up, i'm a toys'r'us kid

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2014
    Messages:
    3,005
    Location:
    MD via DC via NY
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    11
    Obviously anyone who's going to Vegas specifically to play blackjack would only play 3:2.

    But there's many people, many in this thread, who go to Vegas because it's Vegas and just happen to enjoy playing blackjack over other games - but it's not their primary reason for going. They're there to have a good time with friends.

    In my last trip I played almost exclusively at Planet Hollywood and Cromwell because they both had 3:2. But some friends wanted to play for a bit at Park MGM before dinner, so I played $15 6:5 for about an hour and a half.

    And everyone had a great time.

    If I had sat it out, or tried to force the other 3 people I was with to go further away from our dinner reservations just to play 3:2, that would make me quite a dick.

    So yea - you should always seek out the best odds, and you should never ever sit at a 6:5 table when a 3:2 is available. But sometimes the group you're with just wants to have a little fun for a few with a relatively easy game to pick up, and in those situations? Yea, go ahead and play some 6:5 (while explaining to said friends that you can get better odds elsewhere in a non dickish, condescending fashion)
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Love Love x 1
  2. topcard

    topcard Here's to $10 3:2 two-deck, $5 Craps, and $5 UTH!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    7,885
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    @Headache 21 - I agree - the "casual, 1 hour a day (or 1.5 hour) blackjack player" might not find any value in changing casinos, interrupting the fun others are having, or straying far from where dinner and/or a show are planned.
    I also would not try to force my party to another casino in order to play 3:2 and avoid 6:5... but nor would I join them at the 6:5 table... I'd play craps or UTH instead, both having a lower HA than any 6:5 table.

    A few years ago, I found myself in a very similar situation to yours - me & 3 other guys decided to open an empty blackjack table at the Golden Nugget, in their "party pit". After a few minutes, I was dealt a blackjack - and when I was paid $12 on my $10 bet, my reaction was "Whoa! This is a 6:5 table, guys!". (They had a tiny, business-card sized "placard" at one of the corners, with small print stating "blackjack pays 6:5" ).
    I colored up, but the rest of my friends wanted to stay because they were having so much fun...and, after all, the dealer was indeed gorgeous.
    So, I moved two tables over and played 3-card Poker.

    Yeah, I know... 3-card is even worse than 6:5, but at least with a legitimate "carny" game, I have a chance at a much larger payout for certain hands.
    6:5? Nope.
    I mean, if they offered some kind of bonus pay-outs for certain hands, such as 5-card charlie pays double, or being dealt three 7s pays triple, or doubling-down after taking a hit was allowed... something to offset the huge extra HA they enjoy by cutting the blackjack payout - then I might be willing to stay & play for the sake of hanging with my friends.
    ...to each his (or her) own!
    The OP's question, "is it really THAT big of a deal?", doesn't address this - she was, presumably, curious as to why some of us react as that it IS that big of a deal.

    I think this is an informative, important thread for that very reason. A casino paying 6:5 on blackjacks has decreased paying on those wins by 60% versus a 3:2 table, (paying $2 instead of $5 on a $10 bet).
    For many of us, giving up 60% of what you should be paid is indeed a "big deal".
    :beer:
     
    Annual Spring Trip!
    • Agree Agree x 4
  3. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2013
    Messages:
    31,307
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    28
    Five card Charlie paying double? That's like DTG offering Full Pay Deuces for dollars this week. :evillaugh:
     
  4. topcard

    topcard Here's to $10 3:2 two-deck, $5 Craps, and $5 UTH!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    7,885
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    I just can't understand why anyone would regularly play a 6:5 game, with the astounding 1.8% house advantage without having some sort of 'jackpot' style bonus feature.
    Think about any of the other "carny" games... they all have some sort of jackpot-type hand that pays a relative windfall.
    UTH - Royal Flush pays 500 to 1 on the 'Blind' bet.
    3-Card - Straight Flush pays 40 to 1.
    Miss. Stud - 500 to 1 on the Royal
    High Card Flush - 300 to 1 on a 7-card flush, 1000 to 1 on a 6-card stright-flush
    4-Card - effectively pays 50 to 1 on 4-OAK & 40 to 1 on a 4-card SF

    6:5 blackjack? Pays you 60% less than 3:2 does on the blackjack "bonus".
     
    Annual Spring Trip!
  5. BlacklabberMike

    BlacklabberMike MIA

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Messages:
    5,373
    Location:
    Where's Ware?
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    says it all.

    now will someone please mercifully kill this thread as there is no more that needs to be said.
     
    • Love Love x 1
  6. Breeze147

    Breeze147 Button Man

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    11,356
    Location:
    Southern Maryland by way of Philadelphia
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    If you want to see a board regular playing 6:5 no matter how shitty the rules, come to Las Vegas next week. I'll play it all day, every day. Why? Because I want to. I'm not searching all over for a 3:2 table and I'm not busting my budget to go to a big bucks table just to get better rules. I don't play beyond $15 and that rarely.

    I'm going to Vegas for one week to escape the mundane bullshit of daily life. Once a year. I'm not wasting my time on some sort of quixotic quest just to prove a point.

    And I'm not playing carny games whose rules I do not understand and where I'm going to be the asshole at the table who can't keep up. I went to too many computer classes in my life where I was clueless and everyone else was miles ahead of me. I don't enjoy that feeling of ineptitude.

    I'm not playing Blackjack for groceries. I want to play the game, drink some beer and interact with the other patrons and staff. That's is exactly what the fuck I travel 2500 miles to do. Fuck all of that other bullshit.

    My opinion and my opinion alone. The rest of you can seek your fun in whatever way you choose.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Wow! Wow! x 1
  7. topcard

    topcard Here's to $10 3:2 two-deck, $5 Craps, and $5 UTH!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    7,885
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    C'mon, breeze...tell us how you really feel!
    :beer:
     
    Annual Spring Trip!
    • Like Like x 3
    • Love Love x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  8. Hurricane

    Hurricane Eat, drink, be merry and roll points

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Messages:
    449
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    18
    I’m basically with Breeze on this one. I don’t mind playing $50+/hand blackjack so it’s easy for me to find a 3:2 game (and I’m never going to play 6:5 over 3:2, all else being equal) but if I’m in Vegas with friends who want to play $10-15 per hand then I’ll sit with them at a 6:5 table, drink some drinks, chat it up and have a good time keeping the lights on for the rest of you sharks.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Scorcho

    Scorcho Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    109
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    0
    It's always amused me that strip/DT casinos feel the need to do 6:5, pissing off a ton of players in the process, to gain an extra ~1% in a game where they probably have an 8%-10% advantage when considering the general public's allergy to playing anything resembling basic strategy.

    It's like the neverending sea of dumbshits doubling down on 13 vs 6 or never hitting 12-16 or [extremely dumb move we've all seen] just isn't enough for them. Gotta get that last 1% and all the bad press that comes with it.
     
    • Love Love x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Dms79

    Dms79 VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,117
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    I totally disagree with this, even though I like and understand your premise.

    Casinos are gonna “get theirs,” much like credit card companies get theirs in interest charges and late fees from people who don’t pay attention to detail.

    There’s still plenty of decent rules 3:2 BJ out there for those of us who care enough to seek it out. That’s in pry thanks to the shitty players/casual players/idiots settling for awful rules, IMO.
     
  11. topcard

    topcard Here's to $10 3:2 two-deck, $5 Craps, and $5 UTH!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    7,885
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    I think 6:5 is here to stay, but I sure wish 'truth in advertising' law would apply, and require that they call it something other than "blackjack".
    Spanish 21, "Freebet", "Switch", "Super-Fun 21"... these games all (to their credit) identify that they are not "blackjack".
    6:5 should be forced to do the same.
     
    Annual Spring Trip!
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. BlacklabberMike

    BlacklabberMike MIA

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Messages:
    5,373
    Location:
    Where's Ware?
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    both mgm springfield and encore in boston have suits filed against them for calling their 6/5 games "blackjack" as
    the way the law is written here blackjack is supposed to pay 3/2, but there is an underlying section that says if the table offers gimmick side bets they can pay 6/5, so technically they are within the law but i agree they should call it something else like crapjack or suckerjack

    the gaming commission has already responded to the encore suit stating that they are within the rules as written and i'm sure they will do the same with mgm.
     
  13. vegasvp

    vegasvp VIP Whale

    Joined:
    May 12, 2014
    Messages:
    1,092
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    40
     
  14. topcard

    topcard Here's to $10 3:2 two-deck, $5 Craps, and $5 UTH!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    7,885
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    Well, obviously, they wouldn't call it anything negative like that... but they could, for example, call it "Free Drinks 21", or "Party-Pit Fun 21", or "Low-Roller 21"... that kind of thing.
     
    Annual Spring Trip!
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    9,433
    Location:
    Florida
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    32
    Mine too.:thumbsup:

    This seems to be the Zombie thread as it doesn't appear to die. :wink2:
     
  16. Hurricane

    Hurricane Eat, drink, be merry and roll points

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2016
    Messages:
    449
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    18
    Given how many people will play sucker games, I am surprised casinos have shown the restraint to stop at 6:5. If I were in charge blackjack on the main floor would pay even money, but would get you a token you could use to play $5 on the carny side bet on the next hand. And then I’d buy a boat and accept an industry award at the next convention.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Init2winit

    Init2winit Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2019
    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Westeros
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    Which table will my bankroll last longer?

    playing

    $25 3:2 blackjack table or
    $15 6:5 blackjack table?
     
  18. topcard

    topcard Here's to $10 3:2 two-deck, $5 Craps, and $5 UTH!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    7,885
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    Depends on your bankroll, of course, but lets assume a fixed number of units - say 100, or $1500/$2500 bankroll.

    Let's also assume that you do not count cards, but you do play perfect (or near-perfect) "basic strategy", flat-betting every hand.
    We'll apply a 1.7% house advantage to 6:5 and a 0.4% to 3:2, with the only difference being the pay-out for getting a blackjack.
    After 4 hours of play, (300 hands), here is the impact:
    300 hands x $15 x 1.7% HA = -$76.50.
    300 hands x $25 x 0.4% = -$30.
    You are $11 per hour better off playing $25 at 3:2 versus playing $15 at 6:5.

    A better way to look at it is what you give up: You forfeit $4.50 per blackjack playing 6:5 at $15. (15 x 6:5 = $18 versus 15 x 3:2 = $22.50). 4 hours of play, you give away $54. About $13 an hour.
     
    Annual Spring Trip!
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. topcard

    topcard Here's to $10 3:2 two-deck, $5 Craps, and $5 UTH!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    7,885
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    100
    Bottom line of the above post?
    If you're on the strip & going to play blackjack for more than an hour, it is definitely "worth it" to spend the $10 or so, round-trip, to Uber over to Gold Coast & play one of their many $5 & $10 3:2 double-deck pitch games, H17, DAS permitted.

    Take the free shuttle to/from Gold Coast, play for 4 hours at $15/hand & use the $54 you saved to pay for your meal or show-ticket when you get back to the Strip.
     
    Annual Spring Trip!
    • Love Love x 1
  20. Tex

    Tex VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2017
    Messages:
    1,098
    Location:
    At a Vegas craps table
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    50
    Dude, we need you to quit holding back and tell us how you really feel.

    eta - dam, beat like a drum on my smart ass comment by Topcard.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.