1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Table Games Interesting Craps situation at Palazzo

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by JaviSRK, Oct 10, 2021.

  1. JaviSRK

    JaviSRK Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2010
    Messages:
    404
    Location:
    Texas
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    27
    So on a non-descript Thursday evening, my father and I were having dinner over at CUT. The steak was wonderful, by the way. Afterwards, we decided to gamble over at Palazzo, and for whatever reason, my father decided to play Crapless Craps, $25 table.

    About 30 mins into the session, there was an interesting situation where the shooter was rolling a semi-hot hand, and during one of the rolls, one of the die was a 5, the other ended up perfectly situated in a place between 2 chip stacks. While in itself, the roll was inconclusive, but the stickman at the time decided to manipulate the situation and hit the die, which caused it to become a 2 and become a seven.

    While the crew started to collect all the chips, the entire table protested that it was an unfair manipulation by the stickman. The pitboss was then called into the situation, and it was ultimately determined that it should have been a no-roll, but it took almost 2 hours to consolidate all the bets to make sure that they were accurate as determined by the Eye in the Sky (tm, patent pending), and refund all players in the game.

    Keep in mind, all play has been paused at this point in order to make sure that things were correct, and they basically lost 2 hours of theoretical earned income while trying to figure this out.

    Talking with the pit boss, they have never seen a situation like this, and lesser situations tend to favor the house. Has there been a similar situation that y'all have encountered? Or what should have the casino have done to make things right?
     
    • Wow! Wow! x 6
    • Like Like x 1
  2. FullPay

    FullPay When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2008
    Messages:
    3,544
    Location:
    Derby City, Kentucky
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    110
    I’ve always heard that if an object is impeding the die from falling flat the call is made of what would show if the object were not there. If the object is a wall the dealer is free to call it. If the object is a chip or stack of chips the stick could move the object, but can’t just poke the die. But the real loss of two hours would be from the lives of the players. Fortunately I never have enough bets out to not walk away after fifteen minutes.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  3. VegasBJ

    VegasBJ VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6,581
    Location:
    usually Shadow Creek
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    461
    Boy, that was a shitty move by the stickman
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  4. fasbman

    fasbman High-Roller

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2007
    Messages:
    774
    Location:
    Near Houston
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    50
    The strangest situation that happened to me personally was when I was playing craps at Circus Circus. It was a choppy table, so I decided to cash in with a small profit. I pushed my chips in toward the dealer and said "color me in". For some reason, known only to him, he decided to take my stack of chips and comingled them with the houses chips and dragged them all to their side of the table. After picking my jaw up off the floor, I yelled out "you took my chips"! The boxman stopped any further action, and asked another dealer what happened. After confirming my story, he asked me how much I thought I had. I told him, and they immediately paid me out, so I can't complain about the customer service.

    I'm pretty sure that the dealer that took my chips was auditioning and was not a regular employee, since he was wearing a white shirt and dark pants and not the house uniform. At any rate, I never saw him again.
     
    • Wow! Wow! x 2
  5. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    11,303
    Location:
    Boston
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    27
    Yes, and it was also at Palazzo, but quite a few years ago.

    Crowded table, I had been there a while.

    Shooter rolls, one of the die lands wedged straight up and down between two slightly separated stacks of chips in play, of the same height, with one edge pointing perfectly (and I mean perfectly) straight up, like this:

    upload_2021-10-12_5-14-29.png

    You can't really invoke the "remove the obstruction" rule because you can't perfectly remove both stacks.

    Stick doesn't make a call, everybody looks at the box expecting a no roll, he looks and calls a se7en because the top side that was facing him made a se7en.

    Table emptied out.

    If it had been leaning at all, people wouldn't have been as pissed, but you would have had to bring in a plumb line to determine it wasn't perfectly straight up and down.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
    • Wow! Wow! x 2
  6. RPMCanes

    RPMCanes VIP Whale

    Joined:
    May 29, 2010
    Messages:
    1,567
    Location:
    Lawrenceville, GA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    30
    Had they not reversed that, not only would that stickman need to look over both shoulders on the way to his car, the Palazzo would lose every customer at that table.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2010
    Messages:
    7,567
    Location:
    Florida
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    26
    Is there an official "gaming" rule for this or is it purely the decision of the pit?
    Just wondering if the gaming laws determine when a "roll" or "no roll" is supposed to be called.
     
  8. casinoboy

    casinoboy Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2013
    Messages:
    407
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    20
    sucks you had to lose 2 hours but also good that they had to waste 2 hours of table time to make up for the stickman's stupid decision.
     
  9. smerrian

    smerrian View from Bally's

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2014
    Messages:
    6,954
    Location:
    South Jersey
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    50
    I love craps at the Palazzo. They've been fair every time I've played there. Now, Bally's, that's another story.
     
    PHX >> LAS
    Thank You, Wynn
  10. jfeathe1211

    jfeathe1211 Tourist

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2021
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Texas
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    I always thought both dice had to be laying flat on the felt for a roll to count and if they didn’t, both dice had to be re-rolled. That would make any situation like this easy to resolve and wouldn’t force the croupier to interfere in the result of the dice.

    I have also seen a wildly enthusiastic dice throw send a stack of chips flying all across and off the table. The pit boss was gracious enough to let that bet be reset without a camera review or any other hullabaloo. I think he wisely understood that a half hour of halted gameplay wasn’t worth the $5 or $10 that could possibly be lost.
     
  11. Calder

    Calder VIP Whale

    Joined:
    May 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,001
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    15
    Nah, the box just calls the roll based on how the die would lie should any obstruction be removed. Never see one settle at an angle against the back wall?

    To me, unless this was a very crowded layout, that's a crew not paying attention. The base dealer should be certain there's enough space between cheques (esp. between the line bet and odds) just so this doesn't happen. Place bets are either almost touching, or have a full cheque width between them.

    Maybe between some come and place bets, or a ridiculously crowded prop bet area; but otherwise, the crew should be watching the cheque spacing.

    May seem like a minor aspect of the job, but it's most likely to occur on a crowded layout, when the stakes are highest (and the arguments loudest).
     
    • Agree Agree x 2