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How would you play it (each step of the way) - 89 suited

Discussion in 'The Poker Room' started by TRN, Apr 18, 2017.

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  1. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Hot Dogs and Buns

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    Playing in a single table satellite for a larger regional Main Event. Last 2 standing out of 9 will get a seat in the tournament. Satellite is $135 entry, levels are 10 minutes in duration (ugh). Starting stack is 8000 chips. Currently in level 2 (50/100). Hero has 10k chips after winning a small pot in level 1 and folding a lot waiting for decent cards.

    Villain on this hand is aggressive younger guy, maybe an internet player, but seems to be kind of random. He plays a lot of hands, but the ones I have seen to the end were decent starting hands for a turbo format tournament (KQ, AJ, 99, 55). He also claimed to have overbet a KQJ flop with 27 offsuit, on an earlier hand but never showed that - could be all talk. V has hero covered by a little, maybe 11k or 11,500.

    In this hand, action folds to Villain in MP who opens for 225.

    Hero on button - what is the play? Fold / call / raise?
     
  2. Crambone

    Crambone Gnaeus Pompey Magnus

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    You just got past the blinds. Fold.
     
  3. vetsen

    vetsen Low-Roller

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    1 vote for call.
     
  4. 93 Octane

    93 Octane Chief bottle washer

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  5. Crambone

    Crambone Gnaeus Pompey Magnus

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    V already showed KQ, AJ, 99, 55 and they all beat what your holding now. You've shown patience this far and you're only out $100 or %1 of stack. V got lucky you have squat and raised at the right time. I hope the BB slow plays his QQ.

    89 suited is the type of hand where you're probably chasing the straight or flush after the flop. Doesn't sound like you're the chaser type.
     
  6. Shipppp09

    Shipppp09 Low-Roller

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    Sb and bb come into play here. I assume since its level 2 that they have av.stack sizes and are standard players. Typically tight is right in the 1st few levels of stt's but seeing as the payouts are very top heavy and you've got a hand with a decent amount of potential I don't mind a flat here. Raise seems pretty unessessary/spewy at this stage of the stt.
     
  7. kps

    kps High-Roller

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    Fold. The table probably sees you as a solid, patient player so a call by you may indicate weakness to the 2 behind you and the villain. Any raise by either 2 and still seeing what the villain does puts you behind in my mind so why even give away the 225.
     
  8. booker

    booker VIP Whale

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    I would either flat or fold. Due to button position, I'll go with flat and hope to crush the flop. (Don't we always hope to crush the flop?)

    That said, if either of the blinds put in a 1/2 pot raise or larger, I'm gone. Then again, if the flop gives me at least 8 outs, I'd consider shoving against one better or if it's checked to me. In 10 minute levels there obviously isn't much time to pick up premium hands.
     
  9. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    I guess I'm the one guy who sees a raise as not that bad. The blinds are aggressive and your stack size is fine.

    Others have correctly pointed out the problem with 8-9. You will almost never flop a monster, you will be hitting draws. If you flat and get in the hand alone, you will be paying more into the pot to chase your big hand, or folding a draw (in which case you should have just folded here). Worse, if you flat call and the blinds come along, you could be facing a C-bet with players to act behind. It could help you build a big pot, but it could lead to big call offs on a draw.

    If you raise, you take over priority in position. Sometimes you'll get a fold right there, and you'll always make the guy uncomfortable. You get way more chance of either seeing the turn card for free, or seeing the turn and river based off one c-bet you pick the size of. Just don't commit too hard. Keep the size manageable, and make the move knowing you'll be folding to a 4 bet or a large enough donk bet on the flop.

    The blinds are a concern, but if they 4 bet its an easy fold, and if they come along, they have the same position problem and you could still get a free turn as the aggressor.

    You can 3-bet and c-bet the flop if you like, end up bailing, and still be above your starting stack.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
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  10. Shipppp09

    Shipppp09 Low-Roller

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    Hands like these are what make the game of poker so great imo and what makes me think live poker will never be solved, save for those few sickos out there. You have a standard hand that will come up every single session you ever play poker. We have strong views on all 3 options being people's preferred play, neither one is correct/incorrect in my opinion.
     
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  11. Scooby

    Scooby Tourist

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    Call

    (If you fold the thread dies a boring death lol)
     
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  12. Crambone

    Crambone Gnaeus Pompey Magnus

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    hehehe
    He's certainly milking the pre-flop drama.

    Someone put a clock on him.
     
  13. remmerde

    remmerde VMB's Resident Cigar Sommelier

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    The rule of thumb I use with suited connectors against (likely) one other player is: what are the chances I can get a free turn card? Because the vast majority of the time 89s is going to be a complete whiff or you only have a draw on the flop. And you are in a tough spot having to call a flop c-bet and a 2nd barrel on the turn with most draws.

    The word "aggressive" was used to describe the villain. For me, that makes it a pre-flop fold most of the time.

    Against a player who has shown he can slow down out of position on the turn, you have more chances to make a hand with 89s.
     
  14. remmerde

    remmerde VMB's Resident Cigar Sommelier

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    Responded before I read Nevyn's post. He has it exactly right. A 3-bet probably makes more sense than a flat against an opponent you see as aggressive.
     
  15. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Hot Dogs and Buns

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    (Sorry for the delay, travel for work this week keeping me busy.)

    Hero 3-bets to 500 and would be happy to end the hand right here. Blinds fold, Villain calls. Pot: 1150

    Flop: 567 suited clubs. (hero has 89 suited hearts)

    Villain leads out for 500. Hero?
     
  16. Dobber2320

    Dobber2320 Tourist

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    I raise to $2000 and am prepared to shove if he makes a move at the pot. If he has AK of clubs than so be it. Here is your chance to score a nice pot and take the overall lead in the tournament. With the way that the blinds are working here you don't get many great chances to make a hand like this.
     
  17. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    Well, now life gets interesting doesn't it?

    The most likely scenario is the player is just trying to donk out at a scare flop and steal it, but this is still a tough one to play.

    But there is now 1600 in the pot and you have 9,500, which doesn't leave much chance at guessing wrong. Worse, even if Villain didn't just flop the flush, there is a decent chance he has the ace for the nut draw.

    I am really not sure on this one. The problem is if villain has the Ace of Clubs. Is there any bet you can make (other than a prayer and a shove) that will push him off that draw? Or will he just semi bluff shove a larger raise knowing that you don't have the nuts and he has a redraw even if you call?

    If you think he would take that line, the answer is probably a smaller raise, which should fold out all straight bluffs and overpairs. You don't really want to have to decide right now for all your chips based on whether he has you dead or is just drawing.

    If you think he would look up a near pot sized raise with the ace, but shove with a flush, there is merit to the bigger raise, planning to ship it on the turn if no club arrives.

    If you think he would fold the ace to a raise of that size, not wanting to draw for his tournament, then that is definitely the right play.


    As he is aggressive and its a faster tournament though, I think there is a decent chance he would shove with the ace of clubs.against a larger raise. So I am leaning towards raising it to 1300-1500.
     
  18. booker

    booker VIP Whale

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    Spot on. And if he repops like an aggressive guy with a big club might, shove. In a turbo, ya ain't got much time.
     
  19. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    I think the repop would probably be a shove.

    You guys could be right. But what I don't like is that the stakes work both ways. The raise (either small or big) should fold out anything but the flush and the nut draw. That is the good news, we win right here a lot.

    But it also means we are only stacking off when we are behind, or when 57% to win. That means even if 87% of his re-raises are just on a draw, we are flipping a coin for stacks. Is it THAT much of a turbo?

    Or do you guys think he would really bluff that spot with no club?
     
  20. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Hot Dogs and Buns

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    picking back up...

    V leads out for 500 after the flop. Hero raises to 2175. V 3-bets all in.

    Hero's next move?
     
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