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How would you play it? 1/3 NLHE Caesars Windsor Street by Street

Discussion in 'The Poker Room' started by Nevyn, May 20, 2017.

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  1. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    10 handed at Caesars Windsor.

    Villain is UTG. He has been playing since the table opened (1.5 hours), and it young, and chatty. Seems to be trying to give the impression of tipsyness (both in chat and he has exposed cards folding them a few times) but has been drinking water. Playing aggressive, possibly even lag, but all the hands he has exposed (both showdown and voluntary) have been a solid opening range. Played a hand fast and loose early (got all in it TT vs AQs pre-flop with 70BB effective stack). Has not yet played anything slow.

    Villain has ~550. Hero has 186.

    Villain limps UTG. Hero raises to 15 from MP2 with QsQh. All others fold, villain calls


    Flop comes Ac 7h 3d. Villain checks . Pot 34.

    Hero?
     
  2. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Hot Dogs and Buns

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    Smallish bet to get a sense of where you stand. 15-20 would be fine.
     
  3. bigalbr

    bigalbr VIP Whale

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    I think you want to keep this pot small and fold to any serious resistance. If the pot gets big, you're definitely beat. You may want to make a small cbet here, or just check behind.

    If you play for stacks here, you're going to see a big ace or a set most of the time.
     
  4. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    I'll get into my thought process and other stuff later. For now, just the facts.

    Hero bets $25, Villain calls. Turn 8h

    Villain checks.

    Pot 84.

    Hero?
     
  5. meyers67

    meyers67 VIP Whale

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    I like the flop bet.

    Do you think you can get him to fold a weak ace with another bet? In this situation I'm 50/50 between checking and firing again. Probably leaning towards checking since this board is really dry.
     
  6. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Hot Dogs and Buns

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    I check, and am now on the lookout for sneaky hands like A8 or 78 which just got 2 pair, or maybe he limped then called your pre-flop raise with a small pair (33, 77, 88) that just hit a set (I play small pocket pairs like this sometimes, especially in 1/3). Doubt he's going to limp with aces (but who knows with the guy who tries to put the drunk facade on). That said, even Ace+Crap is good here... so slow down.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  7. booker

    booker VIP Whale

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    At this point and with his previous demeanor, I'm only moderately pleased with my hand. I would check. As others have said, he may have any suited A or a smallish pocket pair.
     
  8. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    Hero, not listening to the majority of this sage advice, bets 55

    Villain raises all in. Pot 285.

    91 to call.

    Hero?
     
  9. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Hot Dogs and Buns

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    The math says call. The heart says fold. I'd save yourself 91 bucks and just get out. If he chose you as his first bluff victim then so be it.
     
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  10. bigalbr

    bigalbr VIP Whale

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    Is use your time machine to go back and not bet $55 an option? What was your plan for this bet? You still don't want to play for stacks with this hand on this board, but you've made it tempting. It's a pretty easy fold if he pushes on the river if you checked behind him on the turn.
     
  11. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    Hero folds and leaves the game shortly thereafter. Hero's friend is sitting beside and chatting with Villain, and later discovers what villain had.


    Now as to what I was thinking, because villain limp called, I had him with a bunch of lower pockets, some weaker suited aces, or connectors. I think the c-bet is pretty standard given the spot (if you don't continue there, you will fold a lot of hands to worse), but agree I probably sized it too big. Part of the issue is that I am both playing a hand and representing, and I don't want the bet to look too weak. My range has a lot of strong aces, so I am telling that story.

    When I get a call, and then a check, this is where I likely screwed up. My thinking at the time was that he easily may have called one street light to see if I'd slow down, or if he had it, he had a weak ace. So to answer the question about the plan on the turn, I was basically turning the queens into a bluff to fold out an ace that was worried about it's kicker. It felt like with the limp-call and passive post-flop play, kings, aces, aK , AQ were all out as possibilities. And beyond those, unless the flop hit him huge, he should have a lot of hands ahead of me who don't want to call off a big pot. And by continuing the story maybe I could take the pot right then from hands I was ahead of, but whose river bets I could struggle to call. I agree I probably should have checked, and then decided based on his action on the river. I should add that I had a pretty tight table image at the time.

    When he raised, I put him on a set or two pair. I didn't think it was a great spot for a semi bluff, because he should not expect many folds, so despite the good odds, I didn't think there was anyway I was ahead.


    So talking with villain about the hand, my friend discovers that he somehow had AK and played it that way, and they discuss whether or not he just got me to fold the same hand. I don't really get his pre-flop play with that hand, as it is a table where his limp would normally bring along 4-5 others, and not many players will squeeze bluff often. But I focused too much on his weak aces range, and also worried too much that occasionally I miss good chances to barrel against players capable of floating.

    I think the line I took can sometimes be defended out of position, and it was really a mistake because I was in position, and had way more opportunity to control the pot size, see the river, and maybe look up his hand.
     
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  12. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Hot Dogs and Buns

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    AK? I don't buy it.
     
  13. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    It was shocking to me when I heard it. But it also doesn't make a lot of sense as a lie to tell another player at the table, and it was not super obvious that my buddy was in fact a friend of mine.
     
  14. MiamiDave

    MiamiDave You Can't Handle the Truth

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    Nothing wrong with V playing AK this way when he has a read that his opponent is willing/able to double barrel semi-bluff twice in position. His only options were to check-raise a dry flop or check/raise the turn. He couldn't call the flop bet and then lead the dry turn, that would be amateurish. He also has no reason to check-call the turn with that stack size. I've played AK similarly before. I hate 3-betting Ax hands pre-flop unless I'm trying to isolate. They're so much more profitable when they're semi-disguised. My 3bet range is pretty wide in the CO/BTN in a deep enough game, but I rarely have Ax as part of it unless it's a very loose opponent.
     
  15. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    The weird thing about AK is the pre-flop play, not the post flop play.

    Given my stack size, all his post flop play makes sense. Limping UTG in THAT game with AK is pretty weird though, as it will often put you in a 5 way + unraised pot. And when you get the preflop raise, not raising with it out of position and closing the trap is also a tad odd.
     
  16. MiamiDave

    MiamiDave You Can't Handle the Truth

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    I feel more comfortable playing a pre-flop raise of 5s in the CO than I do playing a pre-flop raise of AxKx UTG or UTG+1/+2. It's such an exposed hand unless you've been opening often with a wide range. Even if you have been opening with a ride range, though, the average player at a $1/2 or $1/3 NL doesn't pay attention to that, so when you raise in EP they're generally putting you in a pretty tight range regardless of your previous bet patterns.

    I play premium hands in EP a lot different in a $2/5 or higher game than I do in $1/2 or $1/3. If it's $1/3 with a $500 buy-in and/or people are playing deep, I'm probably more likely to raise in EP.

    In a low-stakes game with average players it's so easy to profit off of EP disguised premium hands when they think that ABC poker is to expose them (play them face-up) pre-flop. I'm not saying you should limp every premium hand in EP but you should be switching gears, and when you catch the right opponent with an EP limp you can really make a lot of profit.
     
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  17. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Hot Dogs and Buns

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    I think lying about having AK there makes him appear stronger o the other player, even if he doesnt know that's your buddy. Maybe he had it, who knows. It doesn't add up for me.
     
  18. roju5

    roju5 Tourist

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    I agree with TNR-AK does not make sense to me either.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  19. kansaisupra

    kansaisupra Low-Roller

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    Honestly, I only read your first post so here it goes.

    First off, what is the max buy in for this game?
    2nd, why is your stack only at 186?

    Its an awkward stack size for a 1/3 game in that with any straddled or bloated pot, your pretty much going to be pot committed because your SPR is going to be relatively low.

    So first, I'd try if my bankroll allowed it to top up to at least 100BB.

    Back to the hand.

    When Villain checks, if you do bet, are you betting for value or are you trying to get him to fold? Usually, if I don't know this answer, I'd probably check.
     
  20. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    As to the stack size i had lost 120 or so a few hands earlier. I dont usually reload until i get lower than that. Max buy in 300

    As to the value vs bluff, on the flop vs a limp caller it is borderline value. But it is also about balance. If you check this when you have a pair but no ace , and only bluff air, it is too easy to read you.
     
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