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How would you play? Hand from this weekend tournament - AA in big blind.

Discussion in 'The Poker Room' started by TRN, Mar 12, 2017.

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  1. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Hot Dogs and Buns

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    Played in a $225 deep stack this weekend, 25000 starting chips, 40 minute levels. This hand takes place in early/mid tournament stages, level 6 (200/400/50). Hero has accumulated a stack of about 70000 chips due to taking out two players in one hand (flopped broadway with AK, beat a missed flush draw and a set who both were all in before my turn to act there, after some fun pre-flop raising). Hero is in BB position.

    Villain in this hand is in middle position, and is the only player at the table to have hero covered in chips (80000ish). V is an aggressive young Asian player, who would have even more chips except he missed a flush draw earlier, and lost another hand where he had second nut straight losing to nut straight - or he'd be closer to 180k. He is a known player in this casino and always aggressive, but smart too, and has won several of these monthly deep stack tournaments. We have history in this tournament at final tables, but never played in earlier stages together.

    Hero has AsAh on BB, V raises from MP pre-flop to 1000, Hero 3-bets to 3300, V 4-bets to 9000, Hero calls (should I be 5-betting or shoving here? took a minute and decided I wanted to keep him in the hand, wasn't sure if he was raising with air or premium, given his range and what I've seen from him). Pot: 18700.

    Flop: 7d7s2s

    Hero checks, V bets 10200, Hero calls. Pot: 39100.

    Turn: Qs

    Hero checks, V jams all in, has me covered, I have about 50k behind at this point.

    Hero's play?
     
  2. Royal Flusher

    Royal Flusher Savvy Gambler

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    Leaning towards all in.
     
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  3. 93 Octane

    93 Octane Chief bottle washer

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    I don't see how you can fold in this spot---top pair and nut flush draw. Maybe he got crazy with A7 or 78 suited pre flop. If he did oh well you still have outs
     
  4. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Hot Dogs and Buns

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    Without revealing what I did or the outcome of the hand yet... I get what you're saying, but it's also relatively early in a deepstack (marathon) tournament. If I lay it down, I still have 50k chips (2x starting stack still well above average), and could possibly wait for a better spot. That is what the angel on the left shoulder is saying, while the devil on the right shoulder sounds a lot like you and RoyalFlusher :)
     
  5. sparksinmi

    sparksinmi Tourist

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    there's what - about 100k in the pot? 50 to get 100? i'm thinking fold here- and i think i shove pre-flop;
     
  6. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Hot Dogs and Buns

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    not even 100k, maybe 90k in the pot after he shoves. 50k to call for my tournament life.
     
  7. sparksinmi

    sparksinmi Tourist

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  8. zolar31

    zolar31 Low-Roller

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    PreFlop:
    I like the call of the 4 bet against an aggressive player -- it gives you some deception and you hope he keeps firing.

    Flop:
    I like the call here - great flop for your hand - let villain keep betting.
    Don't want him to fold hands like KQ at this time.

    Turn:
    Never folding in this spot against any agro (player dependent) - especially if the payouts are top heavy
    I call. You block AK, AA, AQ
    I guess he could have QQ, but more likely to have KsKx or KsQx.
    I don't know if any flushes make sense for his range; maybe KsJs or Js10s - but you have outs against this hand.
    If he perceives you as tight; its a great card for him to bluff. If he has the flush or better, does he bet this big.

    I got this weird feeling you called and he showed 99 and hit a 9 on the river.
     
  9. Big dan

    Big dan High-Roller

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    I would have shoved preflop as well. The idea is to get as many chips in as possible with the best hand, there is no better preflop hand than aa.
     
  10. Royal Flusher

    Royal Flusher Savvy Gambler

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    So the kid is smart, but he's also aggressive and maybe prone to emotional chip shoving outbursts. Maybe a bit flakey. I put it at 60/40 going all in, I guess the answer depends on how aggressive a player you are, and what you saw in his sweaty twitching nervous face.
     
  11. johnvic

    johnvic VIP Whale

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    I am not a tournament player, but I'll give my 2 cents.

    One question I would have is how is he aggressive? Is it on every street, just early in the hand or is he capable of a turn all-in bluff?

    Anyway, I think pre-flop is a 5-bet shove. As played, check-raise all-in on the flop.

    On the turn is tough. On the one hand, he is putting your tournament life to the test. But from how I read the action, he is over betting the pot. If he had the nuts, a full house, then I would think he would want you to come along and stay in the hand by betting 1/2 pot.
     
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  12. 93 Octane

    93 Octane Chief bottle washer

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    I'm my opinion crazy guy is hoping you will wait for a better opportunity later in the tourney and is attempting to get you off the better hand...my only hesitation would be he hit trips on the flop and wants to discourage a possible flush draw getting there on the river...but I'm not folding doesn't matter if I'm el busto early
     
  13. ruralhipster

    ruralhipster High-Roller

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    I call and lose to his pocket queens. The way the preflop betting went I would read him on pocket kings or queens. Many is the time I shove (big overbet) with pocket aces against an aggressive and hard to read opponent since I hate to sweat calls and I am much happier being felted on a bad beat instead of a bad call.
     
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  14. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    Interesting spot.

    You have the spade ace, which not only gives you a redraw vs a flush, but also makes him having a flush way less likely. He could just be bullying with the 4 bet pre flop, but I think most people making a move would call the 3 bet and try to bluff a flop you don't like. So what could he have pre flop that could be a flush? Just J10s or KJs. I don't see him 4 betting those usually.

    The bigger worry is likely pocket queens. They fit the pre flop and post flop action. But would he jam it in on the turn if he had the nuts like that? Maybe sometimes, but especially with a scare card coming he could be afraid of killing his action. Acting last on the river, and just a chance of letting a single spade hand catch, he might check it.

    In the meantime, you calling the 4 bet out of position and calling on the flop has given you a pretty narrow range. There is a very good chance you are an overpair. Especially if he has something like AxKs and he can rule out you calling on the flop with the nut flush draw. And that means he could be trying to squeeze you out because of the situation, even in a spot where you might call down in a cash game.

    I think, given the hand to date, I probably call. If he did play loose and hit a flush, you have 11 outs, and there is a reasonable chance you are getting bullied because you are easier to put on a hand here.


    On a seperate note, I would definitely have 5 bet pre-flop because you are out of position.

    NOTE: I try to do these what ifs as if I were playing them, hence the above. But by the fact that its a story Im guessing you called and he had the boat
     
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  15. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Hot Dogs and Buns

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    So one thing that is difficult to convey in the original post/writing, and hard to really clearly communicate, was the body language. I'll get in to that here before I reveal the outcome. Two things happened which helped in my decision.

    1. The way he slid his chips out after he declared "all in". I don't usually pay attention to tells, since so many people hollywood like they're making a tough call when they hold something strong (or sometimes not). Sometimes I pick up something that helps if it's obvious (the way they drop chips or touch chips, the speed they act, talking vs being quiet, etc), and sometimes I never have anything to go on. The way this guy slid his chips into the pot it just looked and felt like he was giving them up, like surrendering them, I can't explain it any more than that - it was all in his body language. It looked like he was just surrendering his chips as he did this, based on nothing but my interpretation of his movements and facial expressions.

    2. As I am processing #1 and thinking about the previous action in the hand, he starts talking. He says "you got Aces beat?"... I wasn't sure how to take this one. I didn't respond but he kept needling me and talking about it more... "you already got flush or full house?"... I feel like this talk conveyed weakness. Maybe I totally misinterpreted, but it made me think he was weak too. #1 was a stronger read, and still very subjective.

    Picking back up...

    Pot: 39100. Turn: Qs

    Hero checks, V jams all in, has me covered, I have about 50k behind at this point.

    Hero tank calls after the things discussed above.

    V turns over AK with Ks. Hero shows AA with As.

    River is a brick 5c.

    Hero scoops 140k pot. V is crippled down to his last 10k, and proceeds to get knocked out on the next hand.
     
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  16. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Hot Dogs and Buns

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    not all of these are completely misplayed or bad beat heartbreak hands :)
     
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  17. booker

    booker VIP Whale

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    Wow. I would have put him on Qs and folded. I also would have 5-bet. That's why I'm sitting here in my easy chair and you're scooping pots.
     
  18. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Well played imo.
     
  19. kansaisupra

    kansaisupra Low-Roller

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    I read the results but I'll try to be non biased

    AP, I'm never folding here. If he has a flush, at least we have a redraw. If he has a 7 then nice hand but I'm still not folding.

    So a quick break down.

    What made flushes could he have after a 4!
    KsJs ? Ts9s ? Does he 4! That pre? Possible but doubtful. We block AsKs AsJs now Qs on the turn. There hardly any combos of Spades

    What 7x hands does he 4! Pre? 87? 76? A7? Probably none of them.

    So now we are only worried about 77, 22 and QQ. There's 1 combo of 77, 3 combos of 22 and 3 combos of QQ.

    If he has quads whatever nh.

    So 22. Would he 4! Pre? Again possible but downfall.

    So QQ is the question. Does he 4! With QQ probably. Does he Cbet flop with QQ. Yes. Does he over bet shove turn when he hits his gin card? Top full house? Doubtful. Again possible but I'd think he had least consider a smaller size.

    So to me when he over bets shoves turn it sounds like either KK or some weak draw or a straight bluff.

    I'd snap call
     
  20. Shipppp09

    Shipppp09 Low-Roller

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    Best post in the thread.

    Pretty much nailed the analysis although did know the outcome of the hand.

    I actually think that V would of been pretty suprized when you rolled over AxAs after tank calling. It's certainly not a slow roll but just don't think he ever puts you on this after the way the hand has played out.

    His nonsicle babble about "you got flush or full house beat" makes next to no sense either and I think you read that well as weakness.

    Like the flat pre, 5bet shoving is pretty much turning your hand face up, although in this case you may have been called.

    Flop, massive mistake at doing anything other then calling here. If he has 99+ your getting most of the money on the turn anyways and it keeps in the bluffs, which ironically is what he had on the flop.

    Turn, meh can't say it better then Kansa. Think you just say GG if he has QQ,A7,78,22. 3 of them are fairly unlikely and QQ shove on that turn is fairly lolbad.

    A well played hand on all streets sir. Now tell us you went on to ship it?! :D
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
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