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How to play the hand? $2/$5 NLHE cash game in BB

Discussion in 'The Poker Room' started by TRN, Mar 8, 2017.

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  1. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Hot Dogs and Buns

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    This hand from a $2/$5 NLHE cash game last year.

    Hero bought in for $800 and ran it up a little over $3000 in the first hour at the table - lots of loose crazy play going on. Hero is BB in this hand.

    Villain is immediately on hero's left (UTG), and has about $2200. He is the ONLY other player at the table that doesn't seem to be playing ridiculously aggressive. He's also the only player at the table over the age of 40. In fact I've probably seen him play 2 hands in total in the first hour I was there. Never saw what he had in those hands, but I've noticed he is definitely a more conservative player than the slew of internet kids spewing chips away in this game.

    In this hand, V limps in for $5, and somehow the action folds around to me in the BB. I look down at 63 offsuit and check to see a flop. Pot: $12

    Flop: 963 rainbow

    Hero checks bottom two pair, and V bets out $20. Hero calls. Pot: $52

    Turn is 6, hero checks, V bets 80, hero calls. Pot: $212

    River is 3, hero bets out $120. V tanks until some kid not in the hand calls the clock. Before the floor can walk over with a stopwatch, V raises all in.

    Side note, while I am tanking, he asks me what I have, so I told him I flopped two pair and left it at that. He asks which two? I don't respond, just want to concentrate

    What to do...?
     
  2. vetsen

    vetsen Low-Roller

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    I'd sure want to call but I don't know if I could do it. The flop bet seems big for 99; 96 seems about impossible utg in an aggressive game. My guess would be he has a big pair and limped preflop expecting a raise.

    I like betting out on the turn in this spot to get a better idea of where I'm at.
     
  3. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    Well, you only lose to 99, which is in his range, or 9-6 or 9-3 which would be very strange UTG limps from a tight player.

    In the meantime as BB the board is all over your range, so a bluff would be really risky on his part.

    And it is a massive overbet to that pot. He is either trying to make it look like he wants to buy you out of a split pot, or he wants to buy you out of it.

    He would not raise with A-9. He'd call if he thought you were on a draw or fold.
    He could probably do this move with any 6, so 5-6, 6-7, A-6 are somewhat in his range.
    He could be straight bluffing on the assumption that you are a busted draw. But what can he be holding that is a 3 barrel bluff and makes him think you were drawing? For that matter, he has showdown value against either busted draw unless he is a busted draw too. And he could have seen a free card twice.

    The question is, would this guy ever hollywood and go in the tank with 9's, and then try to sucker you into a call with an overbet? Or can he only have a 6 or 3?

    It if it is a split, you are calling $1975 to get $326 back. So you need to be certain he does not have 9s.

    Would not be a completely indefensible call, but sitting on nearly 4x for the session, I probably let it go. I don't think he has less than 9s 5 times out of 6 there.

    Lack of position kills you here. It would be easier to read 9s if you were last to act. But when you check the flop even a big hand could maybe bet out because he needs to build a pot. I really think he has a 6 and I still dont think I'd call.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2017
  4. booker

    booker VIP Whale

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    What would I do? I would tank and have the kid call the clock on me.

    I would probably put him on 9s and an acting job … unless he thinks YOU are the uber tight player at the table and is bluffing, but according to your scenario, he probably isn't.

    I would eventually fold.
     
  5. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Hot Dogs and Buns

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    Picking back up...

    After a few minutes of thinking and the same kid not in the hand calling clock, I took every second of the clock to muster up the courage to call it. To the point of others here, 99 was the only had I was really afraid of from this guy.

    I drop a stack of chips in to call, the guy 'apologizes to me for how he played the hand' (his words), and turns over 99.

    I tilt off the rest of my stack within an orbit and head home angry at myself for not having the brains to lay that down for that price.
     
  6. Wonka

    Wonka Tourist

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    damn.. thats a cooler of a hand...
     
  7. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

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    Just bet the flop in a heads up limped pot. This guy limped and is not aggressive.

    I can understand checking the turn after he bets flop but I'd never flat that turn since he never has 96 or 63

    The average player is never bluffing when they mega ship this river - your best case is he has a 6, but there's not a lot of those in his range from UTG. He has 99 a decent percentage of the time.

    Just no to the people thinking he is shoving hard into this river with an overpair. The board is great for our range and we've given action on 3 streets. He would have to be an idiot to shove here.

    Plus, your read was insightful here - this guy isn't spew monkey shipping this river. He's trying to get paid on his 99 or A6ss - a hand I'm not sure he'd call with pre (you'd know more than me how often he'd call UTG)
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2017
  8. mrstealth

    mrstealth VIP Whale

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    If my understanding is the board at the river is - 9,6,3,6,3 - correct ? so, you loose to any 6 (2 remaining sixes not seen) 2 nines, and 9-3, considering the way you described the villain, I would have folded. The pot is only $300 or so dollars and you are risking way too much (2K ish) to win or possibly split $300. I know it is always tough to lay down a full house, but in this case you must. Flopping "top and bottom" pair on the flop is always a very tricky thing, yes, it's 2 pair, but so many things can happen to counter fit your hand, or in this case, have you completely dominated.
     
  9. johnvic

    johnvic VIP Whale

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    As played, fold the river. I think you should have check raised or led out on the flop. But when a passive player, who limps UTG, raises all in on the river, then it's a fold.
     
  10. kansaisupra

    kansaisupra Low-Roller

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    To be honest, I am not the greatest fan on how you played the hand.

    First, as played,.

    Tight player limps UTG. bets $20 on a 963 board. He could have A9, K9, 99-QQ, maybe 87 maybe 54.
    Then he bets $80 on a 9636 board. If he had a weaker hand like A9 K9, maybe an over pair, he probably isnt betting $80. It will probably be something like $40 maybe $35. I also doubt he bets $80 with opened straight draws as well. Could be bet $80 with an overpair, very possible but tight players might slow down fearing the 6.

    Finally you bet $120 on a 96363 board. Strange play but I see where you are coming from. Then he shoves all in. He probably doesnt limp with 96 UTG, possible but unlikely, and bet pretty much pot on every street and shoves. Do you dont block and 9's so 99 sounds the most likely.

    Tough to find a fold here, but I always say, don't go broke in limped pots.

    I think I would have probably bet flop myself and bet turn as opposed to checking and calling.
     
  11. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    I don't think a lead out on the flop gets you off the hand. You probably get flat called twice.

    Even a check raise on the flop you might put on A9 if the opponent called, so it would take another bet on the turn to get an inkling you are in trouble. And playing the hand that way wins you a lot of tiny pots when its not a cooler.
     
  12. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

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    I'll let KS speak for himself but I don't think the reason to bet flop is because it will help us get away from the hand. We want to bet for value here against a player who is playing in a straightforward fashion. We are towards the top end of our potential range and plenty of worse hands will call us.

    V's betting range when we check probably isn't any smaller than their flop calling range. Why not let us set the price here?
     
  13. NeonTurtle14

    NeonTurtle14 Hot Dogs and Buns

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    Yeah plenty of expensive lessons learned all around. No doubt I would play this differently today than a year or two ago.
     
  14. 93 Octane

    93 Octane Chief bottle washer

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    Thoroughly enjoy the hand discussions :popcorn:
     
    Said I wasnt going back this year but you know how that goes
  15. kansaisupra

    kansaisupra Low-Roller

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    Correct. I didn't say you should bet to get away from the hand. I say you should bet to get value from the hand. Yes this one time he had the one "cooler" hand you were up against but over the long term, they're going to have worse hands that will call. Over pairs, 9x type hands, straight draws. You want to get value for those hands. Sure are you going to run into the nuts. Sure but far majority of the time it will be hands you are beating.

    Generally speaking raising or folding are usually (obviously not always) are better than calling
     
  16. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

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    Especially against a player who isn't very aggressive
     
  17. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    And I disagree in that scenario, because you are the big blind on an unraised hand pre-flop. I think most even conservative players will bet that flop with any 2 cards if checked to. And while the draws and top pairs and pockets might call you, a non aggressive player will often just give up right away to a bet there, and you win the blinds.

    I mean, obviously it is not a 100% thing. Sometimes you need to lead out with strength. But I certainly see nothing wrong with a check, and in fact would generally prefer it.
     
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