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How does “free play” factor in?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by ethanfl79, Aug 16, 2021.

  1. ethanfl79

    ethanfl79 Tourist

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    Just got back from Encore Boston Harbor where I had $965 in free slot play given to me to use. Of course, that’s $1000 that I basically didn’t need to spend out of my own pocket.

    In fact, I was able to convert that free play into nearly $1500 in hard cash with a string of lucky wins on the slots. Obviously this isn’t the norm with free play.

    Do hosts see this free play in their reports and factor it into wins/losses in any way? Because I’m basically being given this money, I feel like I spent less money out-of-pocket than usual, not more. On the other hand, the comps they gave me is a reason I came back to play, as I wouldn’t have otherwise.

    Anyone have any interesting insights here?
     
  2. MCann

    MCann VIP Whale

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    Once you won the initial $1,500, you could have put it in your pocket and walked away. If you didnt, and stayed and played through / recycled a lot of it, then at that point, that was real money that belonged to you, and you risked it against their house advantage. That action will count the same as if it hadn't been won from free play, because it is the same.

    I'm sure they assign a comp value of some sort to it and factor that in to offers or whatever, but they arent going to see "oh well he won 1500 so that 6,000 coin in of cash he did afterward doesn't count because its house money" - because at the point you won it, it was no longer house money
     
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  3. ethanfl79

    ethanfl79 Tourist

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    I actually left the casino UP money from this trip and it’s partly from the wins based on free play. And I just hope that doesn’t hurt my future comp offers.
     
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  4. Legion

    Legion Low-Roller

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    Not being a d*ck here.

    You don’t want to win money because it might hurt your future comp offers? If I could guarantee a win every time I played I would gladly never ask or want a comp again
     
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  5. ethanfl79

    ethanfl79 Tourist

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    No of course I want to win money! That’s why I left UP and didn’t spend it.

    Im just wondering how it might affect comps, because part of the reason I am up is from Free Play. More just curious. I’ll always favor money vs comps.
     
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  6. Legion

    Legion Low-Roller

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    Got ya. JulianC is best around here to ask about comp formula IMO.
     
  7. Marky147

    Marky147 VIP Whale

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    I wouldn't focus on the comps, just live your life and enjoy your trips.

    Whatever comes out in the wash is gravy, as long as you're having a good time.
     
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  8. JulianC

    JulianC Amateur

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    At the Wynn properties in both Vegas and Boston, one does not earn points while free play is active, but one does earn both tier credits and comp dollars -- so it will show up as generated theo, too. (Source: While I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, I did stay at Encore Boston Harbor in a comped room last night. It was a busy evening, so I ended up on a low floor without a harbor view. I lost $100 of what I brought, accounting for less than 30% of the theo I generated. The proceeds of my relatively minuscule amount of free play held out for quite a while.) In terms of simplified, entirely amateur P&L accounting, the proceeds of one's free play will count as a profit for the player. I haven't known Wynncore to degrade offers for players who have winning trips (the way that South Point is notorious for doing).

    That's the gamble that the casino took. For every player who cycles through their free play and then immediately walks away with the proceeds, there are probably at least 100 players who barely come out of pocket beyond the free play proceeds and post a loss that day. For every player who plays a sizable amount past just cycling free play and still profits, there are at least tens (if not scores) of players who lose back the free play and a ton more. Handing out the enticement of free play is still a profitable move for the house.
     
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  9. ReTriggerMe

    ReTriggerMe VIP Whale

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    OMG... are members permitted to type those words in the comps forum?
     
    Starting the Holidays Right
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  10. SoCalMon

    SoCalMon VIP Whale

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    It should not hurt your offers at all. I have had casino trips where I go with just free play all the time back when my local casinos used to have buses. My offers actually went up if I had a good trip getting a lot of points but then if I had a few losing trips in a row, offers go down. Some casinos I used to go once every few weeks and if I had more than 1 casino with good offers, I would sometimes go twice week or alternate each week depending. My offers only hurt when I am not winning enough, which means not getting enough points. Points is what I believe the casino cares about. In vegas, there was a trip where I was trying out cosmo for the first time and then moving to downtown vegas for 3 nights (picked oct 30th to oct 31 cosmo last year, then oct 31 to nov 3rd downtown vegas for a reason so I can take advantage of end of month free play downtown and beginning of month free play). I had a losing trip that night at cosmo and only had the free play downtown vegas to use. and guess what? I won off the free play and I was kept playing, even getting 3 hand pays that weekend (2 at golden nugget, 1 at D). I schedule my trips like this all the time for vegas based on which trip will get me the most free play, helps me not think so much, get comfortable, and to stay alive. I had free play at golden nugget (150 I think it was, I do not quite remember), 4 queens (300), cal $30 (was staying at the cal), and the D $75 for October and November. My offers for all stayed the same except 4 queens which I had low play at mostly using my free play and wonder 4 was not very nice to me there and bumped down to $30 free play the next time the 4 queens offers came out.

    Then when the next scheduled offers were made up, free play actually went up at golden nugget, went up to 100 at the D, got first time free play of $75 at the circa after playing for the first time Nov 1st there from my winnings from golden nugget, 4 4 queens was still at $300 (did not bump down til the next schedule offers, to $30). Cal went up and then did not play at bconnected for a while and a little bit in fremont, which hurt my offers for a couple months and then this month/next month only being sent $5 free play. My last trip 4th of july weekend I stayed at the cal and played a lot, so my nov/december offers is now at 50 free play. My last 2 trips I had real money with me downtown + the free play and offers still averaged the same. Cosmo still 75, circa still 75 (bumped up to 100 free play for nov/dec, D still 100. Golden Gate from first time playing (did not have to play a whole lot to get a lot of free play there, which is higher than the D and Circa where I get more points/spend more money at) got me $150 free play that I used in july but golden gate was not golden last trip, so I did not play exactly the same...so my nov/december went down to $125 and I am surprised it only went down $25 less due to horrible payout/not a lot of points. No offers for august/september/october for 4 queens due to a few not so good trips in a row), but got 700 points in July there. Nov/dec at D, Circa, golden nugget all the same. Also got offers now from plaza from playing there for first time july 5th ($125 to be used 3 days in a row the offer says). Binions I also played for the first time july 5th early morning but no offers yet and I read on here that the offers should be coming out soon. I hope to get my 4 queens offers back based on my 700 points at 4 queens (I know the points because the next day when players club opened I redeemed $70 free play and used it). Binions though I got about 2.5k points because I earned $250 free play at the end and am expecting a big offer I am hoping.

    This tells you that it does not matter if you have money or not. I could have losing trips with free play that does not let you play long and I could have winning trips with free play that lets me play long. I could have trips where I have money with me and play the same if free play does not do that well. I could have trips where free play does bad and the real money does bad where I do not last all 5 hours I am at my local casino before bus takes me back home and hurts my offers. It is all about points. I was explaining everything so you can get an idea what my experience was. It is about points and how long you are playing. The lower you bet though, the longer you have to play to get good offers. The higher you bet, the less time you need to play. If I am in the casino for 5 hours, I want at least 2.5k points. If harrahs, 500 points ($5 per point). A lot of times I do not reach that, but I try. I do not like when nothing is paying and I have trouble getting even 1k points. Now since the pandemic, I go to the local casinos once or twice a month and how often I go depends on how I do previous trip and if we have money and my mom and I usually have to get a one night hotel room (she does not really like to drive a hour and a half to and back same day, san manuel is do-able, but the others are a bit farther). We cannot just go there just for free play when we have to drive to our locals. Gas is also not cheap these days. Also at casinos my offers go down, I make sure I have plenty of money to get them back up again. A few casinos I am waiting on some good trips from the others where I have high free play before visiting them again. It is hard when no buses are running. I am more relaxed when being able to ride a bus.
     
  11. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    If you have $1000 freeplay and play $10 a spin, the first 100 spins will not count. The reality is you will win along the way and could easily play LOTS of that through. Starting with spin #101 in this case will count. -no matter WHERE the money came from.
     
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  12. DaiLun

    DaiLun R.C., L.C., and A.A.N.G.

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    OK, the LAST time I'll tell this story.

    I went to Lake Tahoe and Reno and in Lake Tahoe, I hit for $5,000 within the first 15 minutes, quit and went to the room to sleep. The next day, I went to Reno and hit another hand pay for $1800 within a short amount of time, quit, and went home. I was up about $6000, but only put in maybe 100TC for the weekend.

    https://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/index.php?threads/lake-tahoe-6-7-6-9-2019-i-wasnt-going-to-post-a-trip-report-but.162899/

    After that, my offers went into the toilet (from $250FP to about $20). The room offers stayed the same.

    So, It COULD HAVE an effect on future offers
     
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  13. Brandt

    Brandt Low-Roller

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    I would rather have $6,000 profit compared to $230 more FP
     
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  14. Legion

    Legion Low-Roller

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    Your win didn’t kill your FreePlay.. Your lack of play did.
     
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  15. Renaldow

    Renaldow Low-Roller

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    It sounds like you really didn't do much gambling since you quit after winning early. I'd bet that had more to do with your wins than if you'd pocketed the cash and kept playing as if you hadn't won.
     
  16. DaiLun

    DaiLun R.C., L.C., and A.A.N.G.

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    Yeah, I guess you're both right. It was probably not appropriate for OPs thread. This was more of a "quit while you're ahead but beware of it killing your comps" story.
     
    Borgata Atlantic City - 2 nights comped
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  17. Renaldow

    Renaldow Low-Roller

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    Don't get me wrong, I probably would've done exactly what you did.
     
  18. nostresshere

    nostresshere Mr. Anti Debit Card

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    There are few things in life that I respect and often in awe of.

    * People that win and stop playing.

    * People that don't drink and are just as happy

    I have gone to bed after a nice handpay before. And I have also stayed up done well on a roll. The hard part is knowing when the fairy godmother has quit for the evening - LOL.

    To be fair, never gambling even $1 is the smartest thing, but folks that go to Vegas for the most part do not fall into what should seem like good logic.
     
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  19. JeJas

    JeJas VIP Whale

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    Absolutely not!
    I expect him being banned by VMB and blacklisted by casinos.
    Oh wait, casinos don't blacklist people who don't care about comps. So that part won't happen.