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Table Games How do you deal with dealer mistakes FOR YOU?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by parlayboy, Jan 19, 2017.

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  1. parlayboy

    parlayboy Tourist

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    I've posted about this a lot in other forums but never here. I know this is a matter of personal choice but I am always curious about it.

    I personally "accept and dummy up" about all dealer mistakes in my favor. Some think it unethical to know you got paid when you shouldn't have but my "reasons for rarely relinquishing" such bonuses are that I was cheated several times in LV in my 20's. I didn't know the protocol for such things and just ended up taking it on the chin. So ALL such bonuses are "righting the books" IMO.

    I was cheated by a couple of BJ dealers who could tell I was a newbie and just blatantly took my $ on wins and went on and didn't even acknowledge my protestations - I didn't know about floormen and pitstiffs in those early days and would move on and not call one over like I would now. I also had craps dealers muck my wrong bets at times and then ignore me when I protested as well. My friends also got ripped off by a sportsbook clerk who told them "ties lose" on spread bets - when they have NEVER in LV that I know of. I am sure they pocketed the refund instead. I also witnessed a small off-strip casino cheat players by leaving about two decks that had come out FULL of As and Xs in the discard wrack and not shuffle them or return them to the shoe. I got up and moved on but more than 3 hours later I passed that table and they were still leaving the clump of high cards in the wrack. I warned the other players they were getting ripped off but they didn't move - or understand I guess.

    Anyway, such little "cheats" have made me accept all dealer BONUSES since as I have no justifications for helping them after such experiences. And while I've literally saved other players hundreds of times from dealer mistakes against them ( I like to help and root for other players usually ), it does irk me a tad when someone else ( always seems like it is a blue hair BTW ) points out a dealer mistake that helped me or anyone else. Why would someone else's "bonus" be yours to CORRECT? Just smile at the benefactor(s) and play on!

    The ONE exception is if I like the dealer ( either have played against them a lot or they are particularly helpful or nice - and I do toke pretty generously so it isn't a matter of taking it out on them ) and they make an obvious mistake WITH the pitstiff looking over their shoulder, I will give them some TELL that they paid me when they shouldn't have just to SAVE THEM from a lecture or ding by their boss. In that situation I will voluntarily "forfeit" a mistake bonus to save the dealer any trouble. But NEVER in any other circumstance.

    Why it is germane for me is that I often have played downtown where a lot of break-in dealers learn to deal. Thus I run into a lot of relatively new dealers. Such probationary dealers tend to make a lot more mistakes than vets. I also tend to get chatty with dealers if no one else is talking to them or being social. Even vet dealers make many more mistakes when you get them embroiled in some conversation for most of their shift. Thus I've seen MANY mistakes in my playing. I NOW politely point out mistakes against me, or others, and call the floorman if the dealer is looking to ignore it. But I shall keep "dummying up" when it goes my way to try to right the books from those early day rip-offs I endured. I don't set out to "induce mistakes" by chatting, but it does happen on occasion. A pro gambler I know will occasionally play craps, for giggles with friends, and make very uneven bets to "try to illicit" payoff mistakes in his favor. By doing it he expects 1-2 mistakes in his favor an hour which offsets the low vig of that game. Now I do think THAT crosses the line a bit, but I don't advocate that technique.

    I have a few good stories about dealers cheating for players too, they all involve cute players and male dealers. hahaha I once had a total stranger at a BJ player TRY to trick the dealer into paying me by claiming they made a mistake against me when they didn't - and she tried it multiple times even. Now that is what I call a good tablemate, LOL. The dealer had made a mistake in my favor early on and this girl was so tickled by it that she thought she'd try to get me more of them I guess.

    I did once have a mistake bonus taken back. I was playing at a $50 BJ table at Bellagio, which is rare as I tend to be a low min player 99% of the time. The dealer paid me and the other player at the table when we'd lost and we both just winked at each other and played on. About 30 mins later a security guard comes up behind us ( I guess so we wouldn't just run off ) and with the floorman asks us both to forfeit the mistake. They say they caught it reviewing the tape and we owe it back to them. I so wish I had bailed or not had it in chips in front of me. We both complied after some protestations. I'd never ever seen that happen before but evidently it isn't that rare at a higher limit or high roller table where it isn't just a $10 or $20 swing per mistake.
     
  2. wormhole

    wormhole VIP Whale

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    I don't recall ever noticing a mistake in my favor in Vegas. If there were any, nobody caught it or said anything. I usually play low limit tables, though.

    At the local casino I frequent, since I know a lot of the dealers there, I point them out if I catch it, so they don't get dinged for it. I have never had an over payment called back after the fact by the pit or cameras. I have had dealers catch their mistakes before I noticed it and pull them back.

    I did have an under payment given to me once when caught by the cameras (at my local joint).
     
  3. wernerw

    wernerw Low-Roller

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    I shut up and take the money.

    (of course only if dealer overpays)
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
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  4. JeJas

    JeJas VIP Whale

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    When I see a player is short paid by a dealer, I always speak up. It happened many many times, too many times.
    Most of those times, if I didn't say anything, the player wouldn't know.
    I believe somewhat related to alcohol. I don't drink while I am gambling.
    Does the dealer know? I am not sure. Maybe too tired, maybe intentional.
    There were couple of times I believe the dealers were intentional.

    But when I see a player or myself over paid by a dealer, I just play dumb.
    I am not paid by the casino to watch their money.
     
  5. parlayboy

    parlayboy Tourist

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    I've never seen that in all my, now thousands, of hours of play - a shorted player being "reimbursed" later. But then as I said I play mostly at the lowest min tables and I don't think they even review/watch the tapes unless someone wins big or unusually. Since that is really rare I've never seen it either way - except that one time at a $50 table. I wonder if some "statute of limitations" should apply? Just smacked me as wrong to have them come for it a half an hour after the fact.

    Not to overgeneralize, but I see so many players who are either a bit drunk or oblivious who don't notice mistakes for or against them. They act like the dealers are perfect and never make a mistake so they don't pay attention and "miss" them. Or they see it and are so meek or "unsure" they don't say anything. While I admit that on very very rare occasion I will "cry wolf" and think I saw a mistake when I didn't, 99+% of the time I am right and even if it is another who was "inadvertently cheated" I will draw attention to it. When I do "cry wolf" I make sure and apologize emphatically to the dealer as I know most of the time they are not doing it intentionally and if they didn't make a mistake and I accused them I will make sure they know I meant no harm and just didn't want someone shorted. I've had a couple probey dealers get flustered and then start making LOTS of mistakes. And a couple have even gotten PO-ed and scolded me for it - when it wasn't my hand affected. But the casinos make plenty off of everyone, they don't need that extra $10 so much they should be cheating anyone out of it - inadvertently or not. And yes, I've even had dealers get mad and start INTENTIONALLY making mistakes against me to try to rip me off. I have just called a floorman and told them what was happening and to review the tape and then bailed - after always getting the right pay since those early days.

    Dealers are human, they make mistakes and the vast majority are inadvertent. The only thing I will say is that a high % of mistakes run against the players, compared to the reverse. IMO, that is because the dealers get so USED to mucking chips and watching players lose they sometimes seem to "assume" a loss by the player when their mind wanders a bit. Plus I think they get dinged much more for a mistake that costs the house over one that benefitted the house. So the benefit of the doubt tends to go against the player in many dealers minds, subconsciously, IMO. They typically don't want to rip players off as they rely on tokes for a living. They know that teeing off players loses them $. Some are just jerks who don't care and think all players are suckers and will just lose it the next hand anyway - but those are unprofessional dealers who probably should be in another profession, IMO.
     
  6. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    I don't justify it by saying I got shorted before, especially since I don't know if I got shorted before, I can't think of a single time I knew I got shorted.

    Same thing with an accidental overpay, by the time I realize it, the next roll was already in progress, I'm not interrupting or saying anything at that point.

    A couple of times I've gotten overpaid huge and it was obviously on purpose, and I'm sure as hell not saying anything about THAT either.
     
  7. parlayboy

    parlayboy Tourist

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    See my post below this, about drunk or oblivious players. I was typing it as you posted. I also rarely drink while gambling as that is such a bad mix overall, IMO.

    It is a bit amazing to me how many people don't pay much attention and just expect that they got paid or lost fairly. Rarely does a day in LV go by that I don't "save" at least one bet for myself or others. Particularly at the break-in low min tables downtown, they happen a LOT. Less in craps than BJ as there are often a couple sets of eyes on each player/bet and they tend to get mistakes corrected by someone else in the crew - or box. But even there if the table is all jammed up with "center bet" players all around I see mistakes every so often.
     
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  8. Nevyn

    Nevyn VIP Whale

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    Quite honestly I often correct them out of reflex without ever even reaching the moral dilemma phase.
     
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  9. parlayboy

    parlayboy Tourist

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    Fair enough, I felt so burned by it that I use that as my justification now and ad infinitum. Not that anyone needs justification, but that is mine. I do know some pro gamblers who would not feel any guilt about ripping off a casino - if there was almost no chance of getting caught. They so loathe casinos and bookies as "thieves" that they feel little compunction to deal fairly with them in any way. I don't agree with them but it is often born from incidents like I had. Bookies can be even worse for cheating players out of $ every and any way they can. It sours some into a cheat-me/cheat-you mentality. As I said, I wouldn't intentionally cheat, but I won't complain about a few bonuses here and there either ( nor feel guilt over them at all ).

    I have trouble believing that a player who has spent any real time at the tables has never ever been shorted. I see it pretty much daily and usually many times a day. You may not have noticed, but my guess is you have and just don't remember having asked them to fix it. Most mistakes are fixed quickly and without any challenges, in my experiences. Every once in a while a floorman has to intervene and I have had a few delayed "while they verify the video". But for small bets they usually just fix them and not bother.

    Overpaid HUGE is also interesting. I've never really seen that. You'd think that wouldn't happen much because of the eye-in-the-sky, and that any big action usually draws a pitstiff or even two.

    That said, I have "suspected" a few mistakes in my favor were intentional as well. Like if I am toking generously and there is no one around I have had dealers "forget" to muck my bets - knowing they would keep me at the table longer and giving them tokes longer. It is very rare but a few don't seem to have taken the "game/house protection" part of the job too seriously IOW. But never for anything big. And always when that part of the pit is truly barren.

    While I'm thinking about it there is another type of dealer mistake that sometimes occurs. While I more-typically like hand-held BJ, I will occasionally play against a shoe and sometimes the dealer will "miss-read" someone's hand signal and hit when they meant to stand or vice-versa. If the floorman is nice and allows the player the "option" of hitting or standing and the next player the option of taking the "already known" card or a new one then all is good. But if they screw ANY PLAYER on such a mistake I bail and let them know what a "shitehole" they are running. I also have had to save folks a lot in those instances. They obviously wanted to stand or hit but the dealer whizzes by them and does the opposite. Many just let it go - which is unbelievable to me. But then I once played with a woman at a HH BJ game who hit "soft 21" like 3 times in 10 minutes. I was winning so I didn't bail right away but the dealer and I were begging her to just show us her cards so she wouldn't keep making such suicide-ally horrific blunders - she busted with 3-6 up several times as well. Some just should not play the game! She wasn't drunk either - just had no clue. Instead of 6% vig of bad players - I think she upped it to about 50%. LOL
     
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  10. ams722

    ams722 Side Bet Shunner

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    I stay quiet and hope they don't notice.

    Happened just a few days ago playing Pai Gow Poker. Should have been a push. Dealer had A-2-3-4-5 straight (2nd highest straight in PGP). I had 6-7-8-9-10. He paid me. I took it.

    I make sure to not make any facial expressions. Sometimes before I've made a "WTF are you doing" with my face, and they've noticed their mistake.
     
  11. FullPay

    FullPay When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro

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    I play craps and take the dealer mistakes for a number of reasons: I cannot make a mistake in my favor but they can make a mistake which could harm me. The money is house money and the boss is there to protect house money; the boss occasionally intervenes on my behalf but that is more like dealer training. The most common mistake I see in my favor is failing to collect a losing bet and leaving it on the table. This is so obvious that I often think the dealer and boss must be in collusion to reward me for playing and tipping. I play pretty straight bets and I've never had an over pay that wasn't corrected before I could reach in.
     
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  12. Happygirl21

    Happygirl21 VIP Whale

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    Call me a fool but if I get overpaid (and it has happened a few times) I let them know. I have this funny, if it doesn't belong to me I don't want it thing. You have to know, if I am shorted I also let them know.

    The craziest thing I ever had happen in regard to a dealer error was this past October at Flamingo. I was playing head-to-head at a $25 DD. I had $60 up and got a pair of 6's, anyway I split them and ultimately each one was a 10 or 11 so naturally, I doubled each one. In the end the dealer won, took my $240 off the table, and not even two hands later the pit boss came over and told me they owed me money. My bf & I looked at each other dumbfounded and he went to explain that DAS was not allowed and the dealer made a mistake, hence, they owed me money. If it didn't happen to me I would not believe it but.... I happily took my $120 and out the door we went :)
     
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  13. bardolator

    bardolator Lifelong Low Roller

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    wernerw +1. Shut up and collect the chips. Pay a little closer attention to avoid getting shorted, since the dealer is prone to making errors.
     
  14. Rush

    Rush MIA

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    I agree. I don't have the "fuck these guys" attitude that allows me to somehow justify stealing.
     
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  15. UTHguy

    UTHguy Low-Roller

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    I was playing High Card Flush while on a BJ break. There was a new dealer that came in and wasn't very experienced. They kept paying the Ante and the Odds bets even when they didn't qualify. Not a single soul at the table said a word.
     
  16. MikeOPensacola

    MikeOPensacola El Jefe

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    I used to let dealer errors in my favor slide but the older I get the more I believe in Karma.........
     
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  17. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    I suppose it depends on where you play. I mean you can spot a new dealer pretty easy, and then, yeah, if I saw the guy obviously having a problem, I'd be watching. Aria and Caesars, I've just never run into it. Caesars, a few of their guys are basically sleepwalking and mentally out to lunch, but they still pay correctly, they're like machines. I'm talking craps, I don't play BJ.
     
  18. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    Sometimes Karma is tipping the dealers every time you shoot and then getting paid $500 in odds on a specious "oral" bet. :beer:
     
  19. grosx2

    grosx2 Have fun storming the castle!

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    If a dealer makes a mistake in my favor, I keep quiet.

    On an unrelated note, I also tip dealers better than at least 95% of the players I've played with over the years.

    And for anyone who references stealing in this thread....get out of here with that nonsense. It's not stealing if the dealer gives you the chips.
     
  20. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    If I can do so without making a big scene (and it doesn't affect other players), I correct the errors in my favor.

    Though, to be fair, I've never had it happen when I had a very large (relative to my average bet) amount of money on the line. What would happen if I had a bet that was, say 8-10X my average bet, on the line and then I had to double down...and a dealer error in my favor occurred? I'd like to think I'd do the right thing. But I'm not terribly confident that I would.
     
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