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For the experts: How is this for comps?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by mrem3200, May 22, 2019.

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  1. mrem3200

    mrem3200 VIP Whale

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    Just got back from my latest trip. Per my host, 17 hours of play over 3 nights, $142 average bet. Roughly 2/3 craps and 1/3 BJ. It was a winning trip, he had me for a win of $1,200, I had me for a win of $200. But whatever. My upfront comps were the room (excl resort fee) and $150 free play. He then gave me the limo to/from the airport and took $300 off of my room charges (about 1/2 of the total charges). It was CET (Cromwell) over EDC weekend.

    It seemed light to me, but my last several trips have been losses of $7k or so and he has taken off all of the room charges, so that is my basis of comparison. And I do know that CET is cutting back on comps. Does this seem about right?

    Thanks
     
  2. vegasqc

    vegasqc VIP Whale

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    Cromwell fri-sat-sun on edc weekend has to be close to 800$- 1000$ no ?
     
  3. spicole

    spicole No shirt, no shoes... NO DICE!

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    It probably isn't out of line, considering base room rates for EDC weekend were probably pretty high. On a normal weekend or weekday you may have had everything removed. They will factor in expected room rates when calculating back-end comps.

    I understand some hosts have some discretion to comp up to a certain percentage of losses if it exceeds your theoretical loss estimate for that trip.

    Not unusual... casino win/loss records for table games are notoriously inaccurate. For your play that weekend, getting it within $1,000 isn't too bad! Finishing in the black after gambling $142/hand for 17 hours is even better!
     
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  4. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Total? Yeah probably closer to 1k. Maybe more. I think he was comped well considering the weekend demand.
     
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  5. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    You may have been way overcomped.

    Your blended HA is 1.1%. If CET counts odds in your quote and you in fact played any significant amount of odds, you made out like a bandit.

    upload_2019-5-23_8-23-11.png

    upload_2019-5-23_8-27-4.png
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
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  6. LB9

    LB9 PH Blackjack Degen

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    Chuck Is right, during EDC you stayed at Cromwell AND got those additional perks? Quite overcomped but hell, that's a good problem to have lol.
     
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  7. HeliBen

    HeliBen Low-Roller

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    Doesn’t the casino pay fixed rates for the rooms? I.e. there is a rate for weekdays and a rate for weekends, and it stays the same the entire year? That’s what they call the „comp rate“

    So then EDC wouldn’t matter.
     
  8. spdandpwr

    spdandpwr VIP Whale

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    AND he won! I wouldn't stress OP...they did you pretty well.

    For me, I am more concerned about comps when I lose than when I win. Nothing hurts more than salt on a wound.

    Also, your future front end comps may get a little better as a result.
     
  9. LB9

    LB9 PH Blackjack Degen

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    ^ Agree totally, however I haven't won in Vegas for a few years lol.
     
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  10. spdandpwr

    spdandpwr VIP Whale

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    I've only come back positive from a gambling trip once in my life. I've been going to casinos (at least) 5 times a year for the last 6 years. I know exactly what you mean. Oh, and that one time I was positive was after I sank in 5k into slots / vp before hitting a 5k jackpot on a random Tabasco themed machine.
     
  11. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    Why would you use a losing trip as your basis for comparison to what comps should be for a winning trip? Let alone a winning trip over a massively busy (and expensive) weekend...
     
  12. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    I think there still may be fluctuation based on the time of year/event. But it's definitely less than rack rate fluctuation.



    Yeah, that's what I was thinking more when I ran the numbers, but i gave 1% theo to BJ because I know they give some slack for errors. Probably using 0.75% is better.

    Also 100 rolls an hour for passline betting with a 1.4% edge? When they rate someone at ~140 in craps does that mean they are putting down $140 for every roll? Or every point attempted? You definitely don't have 100 points an hour. More like 30.
     
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  13. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    No, it is not fixed. The comp value is based on some fraction of the going rate for that room on that day. A random night is not going to have the same comp value as New Years Eve
     
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  14. sinnerman

    sinnerman VIP Whale

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    As others have said, you were probably overcomped OP, considering that it is EDC weekend. My guess is your host is perfectly aware of your losses the last couple trips and that is why he overcomped you. That being said, given that craps has such a huge variability in house hold for different bets, it is hard to calculate exactly.

    If you have this concerns in the future, along with play time and average bet, also ask for your trip theo. That makes your calculation super simple, you should get one third of your theo back as comps.
     
  15. VegasFirstTimer

    VegasFirstTimer High-Roller

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    You are the oceans eleven of comps
     
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  16. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    I agree we don't know for sure what they use as the exact H.A. for either game.

    But everybody seems to think that CET at least counts odds in their quotes (if not in their calc of theo).

    I don't think counting points vs rolls makes sense, you're exposed on every roll (or almost every roll). I did two rows just to show two possibilities of hands/hr, one (60) being stingy and the other (100) being loose.

    But I get what you're saying, if you're a pass line and two come bets player, you don't have everything out on every roll, but they will quote you an avg bet number as if you did. They may have some way of accounting for that in the HA they actually use, or they may not bother.
     
  17. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Yeah, it's all a damn magical black box unless you are told by a pit boss on how it's done, and he's not supposed to tell you. And when you treat "the boys" good, that number gets pushed up anyway. Haha
     
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  18. mrem3200

    mrem3200 VIP Whale

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    Thanks Chuck! Great analysis, this kind of stuff really interests me. A few comments/questions:

    • I don't know if they count odds or not. I had a hard time getting back to the $142. My BJ bets probably averaged $175. For Craps it was generally $15 pass, $100 odds (since Cromwell is 100x odds I didn't have to worry about 3x, 4x, 5x) plus the 6 & 8 for $18 or $24 to start, with some pressing but I am not too aggressive about pressing. Plus a lot of 2 way hard ways. If they include the odds, the $142 is low, if they don't it is high.
    • In your calc it looks like you have me playing both BJ and Craps for 17 hours each? Not sure if it matters much but I was at a table by myself the whole time I played BJ so the actual hph was probably higher, not sure if they factor that into the theo calc or not. I was in the HL room at Cromwell and the pit was pretty engaged (and good guys, one of the reasons I love playing there). In any event, if I rerun your numbers it gets worse (meaning better for me). I did your calc assuming 5 hours BJ and 12 hours Craps and put in the HA for each game on the respective line and I get a total 30% theo of $595. So yeah, I made out pretty good.
    • Does the FP count against the comps at the face value? Meaning since the EV of $150 fp is around $75, should that be the amount included in the comp value? Not complaining or nit picking, just generally curious.
    Thanks again.
     
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  19. mrem3200

    mrem3200 VIP Whale

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    Because that is all that I had for a basis of comparison? Which is why I asked the question.
     
  20. mrem3200

    mrem3200 VIP Whale

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    Thanks, to be clear I am not concerned and am very happy with the trip (including the comps). I only asked because it was an unusual trip, in that it was EDC weekend, I actually won and my comps were less than they have been on losing trips, so I was curious.
     
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