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Table Games First time I've seen a BJ player booted


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parlayboy

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Playing 2d BJ at The Orleans and a quiet guy sits down and bets $25 a hand for 35 minutes or so. Never changed his bet nor did he make any unusual plays ( like split 10s or hit or stand on an unusual situation ). Some casino employee comes up behind him and tells him he's done playing and asks him to get up and walk to an open table. They chat for a minute and then the guy goes to the cashier and leaves.

I ask the dealer what was that about and she whispers "I think he was counting cards". I tell her, but he bet $25 every hand - I don't see how that could make him a cc... But she says she thinks that is why they booted him.

MAYBE he was in their database of counters or something but I swear he didn't do anything that would have raised any red flags IMO. I have played with counters before - who kept under-the-radar by using a small 1-3 spread and didn't play long, but this guy literally was using a 1-1, never deviated in over half an hour. Didn't do anything apart from basic strat. It had to be from an earlier session or because they had him in a book or something I guess. Kinda weird. He was only up $50 too.
 
parlayboy said:
Playing 2d BJ at The Orleans and a quiet guy sits down and bets $25 a hand for 35 minutes or so. Never changed his bet nor did he make any unusual plays ( like split 10s or hit or stand on an unusual situation ). Some casino employee comes up behind him and tells him he's done playing and asks him to get up and walk to an open table. They chat for a minute and then the guy goes to the cashier and leaves.

I ask the dealer what was that about and she whispers "I think he was counting cards". I tell her, but he bet $25 every hand - I don't see how that could make him a cc... But she says she thinks that is why they booted him.

MAYBE he was in their database of counters or something but I swear he didn't do anything that would have raised any red flags IMO. I have played with counters before - who kept under-the-radar by using a small 1-3 spread and didn't play long, but this guy literally was using a 1-1, never deviated in over half an hour. Didn't do anything apart from basic strat. It had to be from an earlier session or because they had him in a book or something I guess. Kinda weird. He was only up $50 too.
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Well, he could be part of a professional team.

One person counts and plays low, and when the count is good, he signals in a big player to play out the shoe.

Easier to make that look inconspicuous that having a big bet spread. And if you spread 1-3 at a low limit game, there is a decent chance they would not care even if it was obvious you were counting.
 
We will never know and the casino sure won't tell us why the guy was booted.
 
Nevyn said:
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Well, he could be part of a professional team.

One person counts and plays low, and when the count is good, he signals in a big player to play out the shoe.

Easier to make that look inconspicuous that having a big bet spread. And if you spread 1-3 at a low limit game, there is a decent chance they would not care even if it was obvious you were counting.
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As I said it was a 2d game and he and I were the only players at the table. It is certainly possible that the count never reached "playable" so if he had a BigPlayer standing by somewhere it never got to a playable deck. It was a $5 table, but he bet 1 green the whole time he played. We were the only 2 at the table so it was not hard to see what he did - nothing that signaled counter IMO. It must have been from a prior session or sessions that they booted him for, just seemed out of no-where. I have played with about a dozen known "retired" counters at sportsbetting get-togethers in LV and a couple strangers I recognized as counters during play. This guy did nothing that would lead anyone to know he was cc.
 
He was probably already on a list somewhere of people not allowed in the casino...sounds like they handled it very politely and professionally.
If he was a counter or signal-Man, he'd of been spreading his bets or just playing the $5 minimum.
 
Yup, probably recognized him from a previous play. Possible he was catching hole cards, but as you say, if he never deviated from basic strategy, that's not likely.
 
If he was part of a team he would have been betting the table minimum. No need to bet $25 when he doesn't have to. He's probably been trespassed or at least barred from BJ in the past. And who knows why he could've been barred. Any number of reasons.
 
Doesn't sound like counting to me at all. Not in Vegas but once at a local casino the floor people removed a guy playing at my table because he was on a list of problem gamblers (i.e. gambling addicts) that were not allowed to play. Not sure how he got on that list (did not know such a list even existed) I kind of took it from his reaction that he knew he was on the list and may have been something he consented to have apply to him. .
 
Maybe he previously self reported himself as a problem gambler. I believe the casino is obligated to remove the person if they are spotted on the property.
 
chitownjohn said:
Maybe he previously self reported himself as a problem gambler. I believe the casino is obligated to remove the person if they are spotted on the property.
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I'd never heard of that but it sounds like a good idea ( problem gamblers banning themselves ). The dealer seemed pretty adamant that it was for counting though.
 
parlayboy said:
I'd never heard of that but it sounds like a good idea ( problem gamblers banning themselves ). The dealer seemed pretty adamant that it was for counting though.
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Couldn't have been counting. There's no counting, hole carding, shuffle tracking, or any other strategy that works without bet variation, strategy variation, or both. I mean, it's possible you could be called into a hot shoe and beat it with a flat bet and basic strategy, but no BJ team on earth is going to do that at $25 a hand. But again, the fact that he wasn't counting at the moment doesn't mean he wasn't booted for being a known counter.
 
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most 2 deck games at Orleans prohibit mid-deck entry. So he probably wasn't signaling a "big player" at an advantageous count.

Cheers,
Kelly
 
letsgotovegas said:
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most 2 deck games at Orleans prohibit mid-deck entry. So he probably wasn't signaling a "big player" at an advantageous count.

Cheers,
Kelly
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Boyd seems to go back on forth on the "no mid-deck entry" thing... for example, the Fremont allows it (now).
In any event, team-signalling would never be effective in a two deck game, as the 'big bettor' would have to be right there already in order to take advantage. If not, he would surely miss at least one hand, and likely two or three...which would probably take you to the shuffle.

No - in all likelihood, this guy was a known counter who was previously barred and got ID'd after he started playing.
Since he was flat-betting, he was most-likely just testing the waters to see whether or not they'd ID him... It's also possible (in two-deck) to go through an entire deck without a count higher than +1. Trust me...I've seen that many, many times. I've had decks that never once went positive before the shuffle, and therefore, I flat-bet that entire deck.
 
Casinos have facial recognition technology built into their security systems. Just took the staff a while to get around to booting him. He's someone who is already in their system as a problem, maybe not at that casino, but surely from one of the other properties they run. Vegas wants players, they just don't like consistent winners.
 
BayouBengal said:
If he was part of a team he would have been betting the table minimum. No need to bet $25 when he doesn't have to. He's probably been trespassed or at least barred from BJ in the past. And who knows why he could've been barred. Any number of reasons.
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chitownjohn said:
Maybe he previously self reported himself as a problem gambler. I believe the casino is obligated to remove the person if they are spotted on the property.
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One or the other of these is what I suspect. More than likely they got a hit on him on the facial rec system and confirmed who he was and asked him to leave. Either he had been banned from that property or all Boyd properties or as one said, may have been on the VEP (voluntary exclusion program). If someone is on the VEP they can actually be charged criminally if they are on the property as it is considered trespass, at least in my state. We get a few of these a month at my casino.
 
He could have been counting, he was probably recognized and tossed prior to the count ever becoming positive. Sounds like someone in the Surveillance department was on the ball.
 
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