Slots Failed slots

[jmiller31]

Over the years of playing video slots I've noticed something and it kind of baffles me. We've all seen new slots come in and then seem to vanish over night on a very simple level this makes sense. It's like any new product, if the public doesn't buy it they die a quick death.

What baffles me though are the ones that show up in small quantities, seem to pay too well, stick around for 6-12 months then disappear.

My first example is from about 15 years ago, it was the original Battleship machine, Aladdin had a few and I think NYNY did too. Every time I played one I could literally play for hours on $20. While the regular wins didn't pay much the achilles heel of the machine was the battleship bonus, it allowed you to play a scaled down version of battleship. Which means that it was somewhat skill/logic based, once you realized this it was pretty straightforward to always complete the bonus.

A very recent example is Plants vs Zombies, for about 12 months it seemed like every strip casino had at least 2-4 machines then it just totally disappeared overnight. I never really got into the machine at first but once I did I never had a bad run, no matter where I played. It seemed like something wrong with the machine and it paid out too often.

There have been other examples but what intrigues me about all of them is they seem to have had some design flaw that allowed too high of a payback and once the casino's realized this they pulled them. If my impressions are correct I don't get how they could get so far into the process and nobody did enough testing to realize the flaws. Am I crazy or have others seen this too?

 

[Multifarious5]

I have seen this, but in talking with slot floor personnel, it's interesting to hear that some machines are "paid off" (free money for the casino) or have partial "royalties" for the movie/themed games, where the casino has to pay something to that specific slot mfg.

Now, this is based on just talking with staff, so it could be wrong, but it rings true. You often see a "hit" game can quickly disappear despite having major foot traffic (if it's not profitable enough, the casino doesn't want to pay that "royalty"), yet you see some awful, old games, that people are rarely on, stick around for years. These are the "paid off" machines, and often lurk in a corner, promising infrequent visitors a shot at the "overlooked" money maker, that actually is a money sucker. Not super lucrative for a casino, but pure profit, enough to merit precious casino floor real estate.

Or, look at the wonka craze when it first came out. Despite being crazy hot, people LINED UP to play, casinos only had 3-4 machines, if that. Royalties.

And while I ALWAYS hunt for those games where you can make $20 last an hour or two, it would make sense it would be the first one on the chopping block, as it's great for the player, but not the casino. Example: There was one huge "gold bar" game in Aria, placed front and center, that did this a few years back. I swear, I ran the same $100 through it for 3 hours, and that was on 2.00$ spins. It was fantastic, and it was always packed. 5 months later, the bank of gold bar machines was gone, despite being hot, I've never seen it again. RIP my beloved gold bar slot, you were too generous for your own good!

Finally, the newer games are software-driven. It's easy to swap out a program for a new one and just slap a new "face" on the existing machine, versus the old reel machines.

So yes, I do see this quite a bit, but it makes financial sense for a casino to do it, even if we players grumble!

This is just my two cents, and probably not worth half of that, but personally, I find the games that stick around the longest aren't always a player's best friend, they're a money maker. Or sometimes they're set looser on release, yet tighten a year or two down the road. Not always the case, but despite "loving" the same games, I've learned to be cautious of the shelflife...too long, and anything seems to spoil!

 

[dmr]

What perplexes me are that some that are fun, and always have someone playing them when you do find them (Neon Nites, Lucky Lion Fish, etc.) have all but disappeared, but the tacky ones like Betty The Yetti [sic] and Buffet Mania are still around.

 

[Jon E Coyote]

A very recent example is Plants vs Zombies, for about 12 months it seemed like every strip casino had at least 2-4 machines then it just totally disappeared overnight. I never really got into the machine at first but once I did I never had a bad run, no matter where I played. It seemed like something wrong with the machine and it paid out too often.

There's still one at TI in the back by CVS, fun game, hit a $90 bonus betting 80 cents a couple days ago

 

[bshowell]

I noticed that with the MJ machines. So fun with fun bonuses but now they're hard to find.

 

[bubbakitty]

Ok old timers. What about the Elvis slot that did the snare drum sound or his growl if you came close to the bonus round ? Those were a hoot and usually in a bank of 6 or so.

 

[jmiller31]

Ok old timers. What about the Elvis slot that did the snare drum sound or his growl if you came close to the bonus round ? Those were a hoot and usually in a bank of 6 or so.

Venetian used to have a big bank of those, they were fun but then they disappeared it seemed like overnight.

Who remembers the original Flip Flop? Those always treated me well then they disappeared and were replaced by Flip Flop 2 which is terrible.

 

[dmr]

well then they disappeared and were replaced by Flip Flop 2 which is terrible.

Very seldom do I ever do well on sequel machines!

Only exception I can think of is Twin Win 2, which really seems like a total clone of Twin Win. Texas Tina and Frog Princess might as well be labeled "20 Dollar Bill Eater" or something!

 

[LV_Bound]

You do tend to see the newer games come and go yet the older games seem to hang around forever.
My thinking is with the new machines, the licensing fee they find cuts into the profits too much.
Although a machine may be bringing in cash, it may not be enough to cover the fee or the fee cuts too much into the profits so they try another machine.

Cheers, Top Gun, and Godzilla were ones I liked yet they weren't around long.

 

[dmr]

My first example is from about 15 years ago, it was the original Battleship machine, Aladdin had a few and I think NYNY did too. Every time I played one I could literally play for hours on $20. While the regular wins didn't pay much the achilles heel of the machine was the battleship bonus, it allowed you to play a scaled down version of battleship. Which means that it was somewhat skill/logic based, once you realized this it was pretty straightforward to always complete the bonus.

Battleship has TOTALLY disappeared, or at least I haven't seen it for 10 years or more. I kind of assumed that their agreement with {mumble - Milton Bradley?} ran out and they did not renew it.

A very recent example is Plants vs Zombies, for about 12 months it seemed like every strip casino had at least 2-4 machines then it just totally disappeared overnight.

I know there are still a few of these at our local Horseshoe. I'm very sure I've seen them elsewhere, maybe even Caesars a few weeks ago. I know it's not extinct - yet.

There have been other examples but what intrigues me about all of them is they seem to have had some design flaw that allowed too high of a payback and once the casino's realized this they pulled them. If my impressions are correct I don't get how they could get so far into the process and nobody did enough testing to realize the flaws. Am I crazy or have others seen this too?

I'm very sure that all of the relatively new machines can be set to a certain payback and that none of the modern ones have flaws. I'm sure they run the numbers on the machines daily if not more often, and if any one did not hold as much as expected they would send a slot technician out to it pronto!

I am VERY SURE that the Orchid and Moolah machines at Hollywood Harrisburg are set to hold more than those at our local casinos, for example.

 

[Geogran]

I am VERY SURE that the Orchid and Moolah machines at Hollywood Harrisburg are set to hold more than those at our local casinos, for example.

@dmr - enjoy reading your comments. Coincidentally I tried those 2 named machines at Hollywood Casino near Harrisburg when visiting family up there last year. No luck...
I'm curious why the hold is more on those machines than other locations? Is that unique to Hollywood?

(My Pennsylvania friend from childhood says she is completely hooked on 'White Orchid' and plays at Sands (Bethlehem), Mount Airy, and Mohegan Sun (Wilkes Barre) - she says it's extremely popular there. What is it about that game, I wonder?

 

[dmr]

@dmr - enjoy reading your comments. Coincidentally I tried those 2 named machines at Hollywood Casino near Harrisburg when visiting family up there last year. No luck... I'm curious why the hold is more on those machines than other locations? Is that unique to Hollywood?

My impression is that the hold is more at Hollywood 'cuz it's the only game in town! They had a good crowd there and I'm sure the amount of the hold is a business decision based on supply/demand and such. The best VP I saw there was 7/5 IIRC, about the same as the local places around here, but the "feel" of the video slots here is definitely looser than in Hbg.

Worse yet, by far, was the Rivers Casino in Chicago (actually Des Plaines or Rosemont, not really sure) where $20 bills just went **POOF** and there was really no fun playing time at all! Hollywood was at least enjoyable for a few hours.

 

[leo21]

Some of those games are on short term leases so even though they are popular, the manufacturer pulls them out. That's why some of the really popular community games left so quick. Some of the older games i think the casinos own outright. As long as people play them, there's no need to remove them. But some of the games mentioned in this thread, I never thought anyone liked them. I don't remember Battleship in a Chicago casino. The first Wonka was popular until everyone got their crack at it. Each time a new one comes, fewer people even try it. The licensed games are really hit or miss. The ones with staying power are the themes they develop on their own. Have you noticed how many different Buffalo games there are and they all have loyal fans.

 

[tringlomane]

Very seldom do I ever do well on sequel machines!

Only exception I can think of is Twin Win 2, which really seems like a total clone of Twin Win. Texas Tina and Frog Princess might as well be labeled "20 Dollar Bill Eater" or something!

I call Texas Tina, "that cold bitch". Lol

 

[shokhead]

Casinos have rows of slots that even when it's really busy nobody is on them. Why keep them?

 

[jmiller31]

Casinos have rows of slots that even when it's really busy nobody is on them. Why keep them?

Simple, they are paid for. As someone else posted some machines are leased from the slot companies and some are owned by the slot companies. Others are straight up owned by the casino. Those are kept long after anyone cares to play them but they are probably set to take the most money from your bank roll.

 

[dmr]

Casinos have rows of slots that even when it's really busy nobody is on them. Why keep them?

I've noticed this too. I specifically think of whole rows of Orchid and Wolf slots, with maybe one person playing each, and then adjacent rows of other assorted slots with most of them occupied.

 

[shokhead]

Simple, they are paid for. As someone else posted some machines are leased from the slot companies and some are owned by the slot companies. Others are straight up owned by the casino. Those are kept long after anyone cares to play them but they are probably set to take the most money from your bank roll.

Don't think you can set them to what you want but what the law says, right?

 

[tringlomane]

Don't think you can set them to what you want but what the law says, right?

Well, there are minimum payback standards, in Nevada that's a pathetic 75% (almost everywhere else is at least 80%, if not 85%), so you can't legally go below that.

I think payback changes do technically require commission approval, but I'm sure that's often approved unless it's something drastic.

Also you are limited by manufacturer settings. Slot paybacks are not some freely sliding scale. For example, a manufacturer may offer these payback settings: 85.1%, 87.6%, 89.9%, 92.6%, 95.1%, 97.4%. The casino can only use one of these 6 settings in this example. Also at least for IGT, it's rare when their slot minimum payback dips below 85%.

 

[Grid]

Looks like many of us hit upon all of the reasons why they disappear so fast already. But look at some of the threads on this forum.
"Which casino on the strip usually has the newest slots?"
That's what so many modern slot players are looking for. They want to play the newest games. My brother is like this and its maddening. He knows that the newest games will have the shittest payback, but he plays them cause they are "new". He knows that themed games pay royalties and that increases their hold. But he plays them any way.

I'll sit in the back on an older 5 line mechanical game, the type that ONLY came with a minimum payback in the low 90's years ago and grind out some fun or get ahead after plenty of play. While he is feeding hundo and hundo in the latest and greatest machine.

Thats one of the reasons why they pull newer machines so fast. Another reason why is the fact modern machines are fairly expensive. As pointed out previously, must casinos lease newer games VS buying them. And many slot makers move machine around the country. The Titan 360 only had so many machines made, so they park one for 6 months at a casino and ship it down the road to the next.