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Table Games Don't pass players, why do you play against the grain?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Bondy3, Oct 18, 2020.

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  1. Bondy3

    Bondy3 High-Roller

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    I have always been a pass line gambler, but in my most recent trip to a casino I walked up to the table and everyone was playing the don't, so I joined in with everybody, I think it was actually more fun because it was different.

    For those of you who play the don't pass line consistently, why do you do it?
     
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  2. VegasBJ

    VegasBJ VIP Whale

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    because the odds are better playing the don't side.
     
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  3. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    I view the passline as against the grain, lol.

    I play the don't about 80% of the time. Even when I am on the passline, I really only bet the line and odds. So the don't has the slightly lower HA on that bet, plus just the knowledge that if I survive the come out roll, I am mathematically favored to win. I like playing with that knowledge
     
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  4. thegov2k2

    thegov2k2 VIP Whale

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    I'm the asshole who likes winning when everyone else is losing.
     
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  5. 44inarow

    44inarow VIP Whale

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    Yeah, if you go by the math, the odds are slightly better. That said, a big part of craps for me is the social aspect. I'll give up the 0.05% house edge for playing as a team. More fun for me that way, and if it ain't fun, there's no point.
     
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  6. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

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    It's a tiny bit better HA. I think it's mostly what @UKFanatic said, once you're past the come out roll, the odds are in your favor.

    And the underlying psychology may be scarring from suffering too many PSOs. :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2020
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  7. bubbakitty

    bubbakitty Doing retirement again and happily so....

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    I’ve seen / heard some people even choose the house / dealer vs the player in baccarat....:eek:
     
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  8. PressThe5n9

    PressThe5n9 VIP Whale

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    It depends on how I want to play that particular session, and if I’m playing the DP then I’m usually playing an overall don’t strategy. I will on occasion place the point to hedge but will do so in a way to guarantee a profit whether it’s the point that rolls or a 7. I know that’s counterintuitive since I’m taking a risk on the come out roll for a “meager” profit, but there’s that guarantee until I get slaughtered on the come out (and it’s happened before).
     
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  9. Necrochaos

    Necrochaos VIP Whale

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    This is mostly true. Pass line -1.41% House Edge (HE) Don't Pass line - 1.36% HE. The difference over hours of playing will be very small.

    I will agree that laying odds are better than place only on the 4/10. Lay 4/10 2.44% HE (1.67% if commission taken only on win) Place 4/10 6.67 (reduced if bought 4.76% (1.67% if commission taken only on win)).

    Lay 6/8 4.00% HE(2.27% if commission taken only on win) Place 6/8 1.52% HE - better odds placing the number.

    I think that most people who play the Don't enjoy getting paid all at once. When Big Red comes, all of the bets pay. Where as when you are playing the "light" or "right" side you get paid when a winning roll is made.

    I will occassionaly play DC (rarely), usually when some cocky jerk is at the table or the table is so cold but I really want to play.
     
  10. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

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    It's also a little different pattern. A seven cleans you out on the pass side. You have to lose each # individually if you're playing dark side.
     
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  11. MikeOPensacola

    MikeOPensacola El Jefe

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    Bingo. That’s exactly how I view it.

    I like playing the don’t and have rarely felt the wrath of my table mates. Considering how much talk there is about pass line players giving don’t pass players a hard time, I’ve never seen more than a few sideway glances and eye rolls, maybe the odd complaint to a buddy, but that’s about all I’ve witnessed. However, I’ve never seen a don’t player hooting and hollering, and generally declaring open warfare against the entire table, when the dice aren’t passing because of a barrage of PSOs. If that occurs, any retaliation after that is fair game. But, normally, don’t players are reasonably below the radar kind of guys.

    A few years ago I was coming down the elevator from the GN breakfast buffet. Those familiar with the GN will recall there is a craps table set up at the very bottom of said escalator. There were five guys there, all on the don’t so I bought in for $300 at a $5 game and had a really fun time rolling with those guys. It was funny because once in a while a player would walk up to the table and notice we were all playing the don’t and they’d just amble away. What I really liked was on the come out roll everyone was rooting for a 2 or 3 instead of the 7/11. Not me. I just wanted to get through the pass line minefield so i always hope for a 4 or 10 on the come out roll. In my experience playing the don’t is a slow grind, but my BR seems to last much longer and I can usually settle in and know I’ll be in the game for a while. For me, the two downsides of playing the don’t are that I need a bigger BR and surviving the come out roll.

    If a pass line player is bleeding chips and blames it on a don’t pass player I tell myself two things: 1. Math and superstition are mutually exclusive. 2. Nobody put a gun to his head and made him gamble in the first place. One other thing that needs to be addressed: Don’t pass players are not, by default, rooting for pass players to lose; they’re rooting for themselves to win. There’s a big difference. I’m happy as hell if a pass line player is hitting his prop bets and as long as he doesn’t win at the expense of my loss I’m not getting steamed that he’s taking in chips, just so that seven lands and the numbers I’ve laid odds on pay off.

    :peace:::beer:
     
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  12. AyDee

    AyDee is getting too old for this

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    You know what's a beautiful sight?
    A commited don't pass player, a table full of pass line players, and a shooter that shoots 47 times without passing the dice.

    (last trip at Cal.. I'm loving it. should have broke the bank and got rich though. think I was grinding back, maybe was $10 min, and still too stupid to know the hot roll mid way)
    (probably got back and doubled up.. A wins a win)

    If I'm shooting my new favorite thing is to compliment the don't if they catch a 4 or 10 point.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
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  13. AyDee

    AyDee is getting too old for this

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    :eek::hmmm:
     
  14. No7Out

    No7Out Tourist

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    As a perma-pass line player I appreciate your perspective and respect for the table and other players. I have encountered players who will loudly call for the 7 when they are on the Don’t but they are the exception and not the norm.

    As someone who generally follows the math for table games (I hit the hard 12 into dealer 2/3 despite attempted peer-pressure comments from the player who randomly stays on soft 17) I recognize I am giving up 0.05% HA by playing the Pass vs Don’t. My rationale is I play craps for the big runs and my betting style is fairly aggressive (will chase Come bets) so I need a shooter to go for 15 minutes to break even but after that the game really gets fun (in the infrequent times the shooter breaks the 15 min mark)

    Most notable point that you made is we each make our own decisions on when/where to play. I will quickly scan the table and if there’s a Don’t player will go to the next. If a Don’t player joins the table I’m already at and it’s the significant majority of Don’t players who will do the silent golf clap for themselves under the table I’ll keep playing. And if I’m not feeling it there are plenty of other places for the casino to take my money or I will actually go enjoy the many benefits of the Vegas resorts (pre-COVID and hopefully again soon)

    I hope big wins for your next craps session (assuming we are not playing together / break even for both of us if we are at the same table)!
     
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  15. MawBoi

    MawBoi Low-Roller

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    Depends on my mood but I’ll play both ways.
     
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  16. JulianC

    JulianC Amateur

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    I just know to never go dark side at MSS. Just about anywhere else is fair game.
     
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  17. iambumbo

    iambumbo Tourist

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    For me, I like winning all my bets at once vs. losing them all at once. If you make a point, fine, one of my numbers goes down but I still (hopefully) have another working.

    When the shooter is hot, I back off and wait for the hot roll to end. Let everyone else make some money for awhile and I'm content to win it back on the next shooter. :D
     
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  18. zignerlv

    zignerlv VIP Whale

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    I have played 30 minutes of craps in my lifetime, but when I watch, I am always entertained at the dirty looks that some give the don't players. It's probably the only bet in the entire casino that gets that kind of reaction. In contrast, I've never seen a roulette player playing red get pissed at someone for playing black.
     
  19. FABismonte

    FABismonte Tell my wife I am "about even."

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    You are right about negative responses from pass line players when someone plays the don't. This does not occur all the time, but it is enough so that when I play the don't I do so on Bubble Craps where no one can easily see where I bet.

    That said, if you play bacarrat enough, you will see people pissed at someone betting say, "player" when the rest of the table is betting "banker."
     
  20. MawBoi

    MawBoi Low-Roller

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    Most pissed I’ve seen people get is during black jack. Hitting on things the majority wouldn’t.
     
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