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Does playing very low at the tables generate comps?

Discussion in 'Comps' started by Bondy3, Oct 11, 2020.

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  1. Bondy3

    Bondy3 High-Roller

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    I understand the more you bet the more you get comped, but when I play craps I am not by any means a high roller, I put 1 or 2 greens on the pass line, take some odds and thats all I do, I find the game to be fun to play with just that. assuming that the dice are thrown at a regular pace (4 throws per minute) theoretical loss is about 1 unit bet per hour, so if I am betting 2 green I'd have about $50 theo per hour, Realistically I would probably play 2-4 hours in a day. meaning my ADT would be $100-$200, would this be enough to generate any comps? Im told 1/3 of ADT goes back to the player so I could expect $30-$70 in comps, but at this low of a number would the casino even bother? I see a lot of people talking about having ADT in the $500+ range and here I am thinking $200 ADT is probably going to be on the high end. will I get anything? (maybe a teaser?)
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
  2. ohcraps

    ohcraps Tourist

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    Rule of thumb when it comes to avg bet on craps: Most casinos dont give you credit for odds bets. (I know, it sucks, but that's the way they roll.. no pun intended).

    Avg craps bet is determined by the sum of your these bets on a given roll: (come +place + field + hardways + horn + hop)

    If you are playing the dont or "laying" the bet, the pitboss will not credit you for odds bets as well.

    If you want an ADT of $100, you mind as well either bet $100 on the point when it comes out or pick four place bets at $25 per...or maybe try the "iron cross".

    If you want to "game" the system, just turn on your bets right before the pit boss arrives. Works really well if the table is full.

    Oh last but not least.. tipping when the pitboss is there is a huge plus.
     
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  3. UKFanatic

    UKFanatic The Arbiter of Taste Caviar Kid

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    The short answer is yes, that will generate comps (plus, as an aside, betting one or two green chips on the line at craps is still low rolling, but you're actually wagering more than the majority of players who are betting two or three reds).

    At CET properties, at the very least, you are generating some reward credits at that level of play. In terms of teaser offers, it obviously depends on the property (green chip play at lower tier CET and mlife properties means a heck of a lot more than green chip play at Wynn and Cosmo). But green chip play should be enough to at least get you discounted rooms most anywhere, and perhaps a free room at lower end places. So I would go for it if you're planning to play anyway. Sounds like you're being realistic and aren't expecting the moon because you play for an hour or two. So go for it and appreciate whatever you get
     
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  4. JulianC

    JulianC Amateur

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    Short answer to your question: no. At least nothing substantial. Also, if you are going to be playing specifically for comps (inadvisable, but people do it anyway), you don't want to be doing that on a table game -- and definitely not at stakes so low that some casinos (the more expensive ones) might not even rate your play.

    I don't know of any casino that counts the pace of play on craps as 240 rolls per hour. Expect the pace of play for player rating purposes to be 90 rolls per hour. That is one roll every 40 seconds on average, in real time -- which includes all the time taken to pay out winning bets, handle buy-ins, and color up players at the end of their sessions. Now play back in your head the last time you were at the dice table. I can guarantee that there was never a stretch where multiple consecutive rolls had less than 10 seconds between them.

    For the way you play, expect the floor supervisor to not be counting your odds as part of your average bet. How the individual bets are tracked for player rating purposes will vary between casinos. Some will separately track contract bets, place/buy bets, and prop bets -- and also track different hold (house edge) amounts for each category of bet to determine the amount of theoretical loss (theo) your play has generated.

    Let's say you play for 3 hours (estimated 270 rolls) with consistent pass line bets of $50, and we will presume that you are properly rated. If we use this handy-dandy guide on house edge for craps, the per-roll house edge on the pass line is 0.42 percent. You would generate a total of about $57 of theo -- $13,500 total action * .0042. Expect comp value to be 30% of theo, so your comp value would be about $17. That's not going to be enough to cover the casino rate of any hotel room. Expect discounted rooms at best.

    Even if the per-roll house edge were to be 1 percent, your comp value from a three-hour session would still only be about $41.

    If I am entirely wrong, I invite everyone to pile on and correct me.
     
  5. pressitagain

    pressitagain VIP Whale

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    I know you like to do the math...

    A $2.50 to $3 spin slot player. That plays for 3-4 hours. Same as $250 per hand in craps.

    Same comp value. As per my Cosmo host.
     
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  6. JulianC

    JulianC Amateur

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    This is a great example of why it is so difficult to estimate theo from playing craps. This could potentially also be an example of a difference in comp value between machine play and table play -- that is, different percentages of generated theo counting as comp value. This can actually be a thing at some casinos (direct source of this fact: a casino executive who works downtown), and I would actually expect this at Cosmo because of the clear division between gaming departments (with slot hosts being in an entirely separate realm from table game hosts).

    For craps, 1% hold / house edge could a decent number to use for estimates. It accounts for the all-too-typical (and relatively average) play of pass line + place bets either inside or all the way across. This would be closer to 0.7-0.8% hold if the expected play is to properly buy the 4 and 10 instead of placing them. At the typical 600 spins per hour and the typical 10% hold for slots (though I am starting to want to count it as 12% because that's the average hold of most of the machines most people play these days -- penny slots), we are looking at $3 per spin on slots generating $720 of theo over 4 hours of play (or $864 at 12% hold). $2.50 per spin on slots would generate $600 of theo in 4 hours. A $250 average bet for 4 hours (360 rolls) is $90000 of action...
    • 1% hold = $900 theo
    • 0.8% hold = $720 theo
    • 0.7% hold = $630 theo
    I am in the same ballpark as your host. It really all depends on how Cosmo rates dice. Since Cosmo does not directly and passively give players enough metrics we can use to measure table play (read: Identity points), it could be reasonable to say that it likely averages 0.8% hold for "typical" play on the dice table.
     
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  7. pressitagain

    pressitagain VIP Whale

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    I appreciate the math work. I think it’s close to your estimates.

    Second offer was no free play. $150 RC. 4 nights. After a craps heavy trip plus 11k in slots (coin in).

    Third offer is $250 free play. $200 RC. 4 nights. After 4 hours of craps and over 50k in slots (coin in).
     
  8. Laugh

    Laugh VIP Whale

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    Gotta take into account as to where you play. Lower and mid tier casinos will like you, but Aria and Bellagio won't bat an eye.
    Even play like this can give you enhanced online offers.
     
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  9. pressitagain

    pressitagain VIP Whale

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    To answer the OP. Yes, it generates something.

    How much in comps? That depends on the casino (chain).
     
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  10. zoobrew

    zoobrew VIP Whale

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    "At the typical 600 spins per hour"

    That is not typical for 99% of slot players. That is a spin every 6 seconds, while a slot player may do that for a few minutes, when you count bonus rounds, feeding the machine, drinking, moving to a new slot, I would guess that the numbers of spins per hour is 50% lower for a typical slot player. I still believe that total coin-in is still more important for a slot player than total time at machines.
     
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  11. Bondy3

    Bondy3 High-Roller

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    $250 avg bet craps player is the same as 2.50 average spin?

    This actually sounds reasonable,

    average hold on a slot is 10%, hold on pass is 0.42% per spin, or about 23.8x (lets round to 25x for easy math)

    I would also assume that a slot player will spin 4x the number of spins in an hour that a craps player will throw the dice, 4x25x=100x, and $250 = 100x$2.50

    but i f you play 100 throws of the dice and are betting say 5x odds, then your theoretical loss is going to be 1/3*100*0.0042*250= $35 and your variance is going to be sqrt(33)*5.82*250 = $8358 standard deviation. meaning that you have about a 1/3 chance to lose your entire 8k bankroll and only generate $35 in theoretical loss, whereas a slot player with an 8k bankroll is going to have a 0% chance of blowing their bankroll generating $35 in theoretical loss.

    For me the swings are the fun of gambling, I buy into the craps table with $2500 and bet $25 pass and $125 behind, play an hour and swing 2k in either direction. thats fun to me. otherwise I feel like im just donating my money to the house
     
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  12. JeJas

    JeJas VIP Whale

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    Certainly!
    one or 2 greens is not high roller by any means, but it does generate theo.
    I have plenty of gambling buddies/friends who never bet anything other than red chips, and they get offers, from Mlife and CET.
    With this kind of actions, will Cosmo send you good offers? No.
    But Milfe, CET and all local chains (Boyd, Station, Penn) will.
     
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  13. Clay

    Clay Tourist

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    Was in Vegas last month. Stayed at the D.....
    Went in the Golden Nugget each morning (5) and play by myself or with 1 or 2 others.
    My betting on my self was 15.00 pass line, 130.00 inside......
    On others it was a 30.00 don’t and a 30 6&8
    Got a mailer from them.
    3 fully comped nights no resort fee.
    50 in free play and 25 in fc .
    Same play at the D only did it twice a day.......
    At GN I was at the table no more than 2 hours a day.
    At the D.. about 5 hours a day.....
    Always comped at the D but give them VP and some Bj.
     
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