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Table Games Do you avoid casinos with 6:5 BJ games?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by PALADIN, May 22, 2017.

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Do you avoid casinos with 6:5 BJ games?

  1. Yes

    74 vote(s)
    71.8%
  2. No

    24 vote(s)
    23.3%
  3. It's gambling, so why do I care about the conditions?

    5 vote(s)
    4.9%
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  1. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

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    No, but CET is a little better than MGM
     
  2. Verboten72

    Verboten72 Tourist

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    Vegas doesn't exist in a bubble...market forces still apply. If a slot machine isn't generating enough revenue, it eventually gets pulled from the floor and replaced. People still vote with their dollars. If the number of visitors to strip casinos drastically drops due to parking fees and lack of 3:2 $5 blackjack, then eventually those things will change too...it just obviously hasn't gotten to that point.

    There's a reason why people pay $30+ for a plain t-shirt when you can buy a similar shirt for $10 at Walmart. 6:5 BJ is a lesson in economic value, pure and simple...what is the maximum price somebody is willing to pay for a game in Casino A? The fact that you can get a lower priced version of the game down the road in Casino B is irrelevant if the individual places a higher overall value in Casino A...just like it doesn't matter to some people that you can get a similar shirt for $10 at Walmart. Economic value and market value/price are two different things.
     
  3. smerrian

    smerrian View from Bally's

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    You miss the point. Yes, if we all only played better games that's all the casinos would offer. But the game doesn't sit in a bubble. Friends that go to Las Vegas to blow off steam and party with their friends could just do it at a bar and pay the tab for their drinks. If they're playing a $5 6:5 table and having the same great time and the net EV loss is less than the bar tab would have been then the group wins. They come out ahead. Yes, the casino made more on their betting but if it's not as much as a bar tab would have been...still a great play for all.

    Serious players should go to a casino that takes their gambling seriously...which isn't MGM or CZR.
     
    PHX >> LAS
    Thank You, Wynn
  4. smerrian

    smerrian View from Bally's

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    Having 6:5 BJ is a much better corporate decision that having even money BJ. The reason is that people don't understand math. Ask anyone at a 6:5 table if this game is better than a 3:2 game and, because the numbers are higher, they will tell you the 6:5 game is better...or they don't understand the difference. These people will still understand that they shouldn't be paid even money on a BJ.
     
    PHX >> LAS
    Thank You, Wynn
  5. woodsie

    woodsie VIP Whale

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    4:5 BJ would be ingenious

    "It pays less because it's a sure thing!"
     
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  6. jacmrose

    jacmrose Low-Roller

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    I kid you not, I heard someone say that he prefers playing at 6:5 tables because it was easier to tip the drink ladies with the $1 chips. Casino executives are probably kicking themselves that they didn't switch sooner.
     
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  7. Tex

    Tex VIP Whale

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    I'm sure casino boardrooms are ecstatic about how 6:5 BJ has been accepted by the gambling masses. It's the quintessential gambling game and if they can change that and face little backlash they know they can keep pushing the envelope without major repercussions.
     
  8. jacmrose

    jacmrose Low-Roller

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    Yeah and Craps is the next game under attack. Wynn is already at 2X odds and I'm sure that will be the new standard soon enough.
     
  9. Tex

    Tex VIP Whale

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    Just wait until they start jacking with the place bet and odds payouts. :(
    Or they'll start on the carney bet payouts in the table center next.
     
  10. jacmrose

    jacmrose Low-Roller

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    I can't imagine them ever changing place bet odds. I think its actually harder to change odds that aren't posted on the table, because they are so ingrained in peoples heads. The All Tall Small odds have been reduced dramatically, and a lot of field bets now pay double on both the 2 and 12. I would imagine hardways and horn bets are next.
     
  11. The Rumor

    The Rumor VIP Whale

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    hardway pays are already horrible

    It's tough to change some of the craps pays because you need to pay in whole dollar increments.
     
  12. jacmrose

    jacmrose Low-Roller

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    You can always make them worse!
     
  13. smerrian

    smerrian View from Bally's

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    CZR properties (except CP) have already cut the horn bets in the middle of the table.
     
    PHX >> LAS
    Thank You, Wynn
  14. dickens1298

    dickens1298 Tourist

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    The crux of the problem with the whole 6:5 debate is that there are a lot of players who simply don't care. They'd rather have dealers in lingerie dealing 6:5 rather than dour-faced middle-aged men dealing 3:2. And when you're betting $10, do you really care if you're being "shorted" $2.50 on each blackjack?

    I have just returned from the Palazzo, and I was watching players bet $100 on the Pair Bet. I've seen players stand on soft 17 on $100 tables, players put out the last of their bankroll on the table because " was going to lose it all eventually anyway". My point is that when it comes to gaming, there are a ton of people out there who act irrationally, and any rational discussion as to why players should not patronize 6:5 blackjack would only fall onto deaf ears.

    Besides, the girls in lingerie are too cute.
     
  15. TJC

    TJC High-Roller

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    I'd be happy with three per year. If a feller can get more than three per hour playing alone, then well, he's more flexible than most.
     
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  16. saintpauljeff

    saintpauljeff VIP Whale

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    I think we need to go ahead and close this thread up in preparation for the new 6:5 BJ thread starting next week.
     
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  17. flyguyfl

    flyguyfl MIA

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    Yes, that one will be is 6 BJ's better than 5?
     
  18. flamingogo

    flamingogo Low-Roller

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    This was exactly what i was going to say. yes, the house edge is smaller at 6:5 BJ than roulette, but that's if one plays perfectly. Someone who's playing 6:5 BJ obviously does not care about good rules, so chances are they won't play well, which increases the HE exponentially. On a game like roulette, the HE stays the same, because there are no bad decisions to be made by the player that can increase it.
     
  19. Jackpot Johnny

    Jackpot Johnny Wynn Fan

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    Add me to the list of those who will not make a consumer statement and avoid a casino with 6:5 Blackjack-seems like most casinos on the Strip have this ridiculous game now. But, I'll not play 6:5 Blackjack. I'm not a math major but I think the odds average hourly cost of playing basic strategy $50 3:2 Blackjack is actually less than playing an hour of $25 6:5 Blackjack? We stay at Wynn, and Wynn has lots of 6:5 Blackjack, but on our last two trips (January and May) there were always $25 3:2 tables during the day and $50 at night. Green chips are more in my comfort zone, but I won money playing for $50, and I was in my favorite environment at Wynn-I never played 6:5 but I played a fair amount of cards. I will not protest to the extent that I'll not go into casinos with crappy game rules, but I avoid the crappy games, or I'll just give into Vegas and make a small investment in a slot machine with a high volatility payoff-I know the odds are crappy but I hit often enough to entice me. My casino playing habits are not scientific or Wizard of Odds perfect, but I've been lucky enough to have been ahead a modest amount on my casino play for two years in a row (unusual, but very nice, and we've gotten a lot of comps). I've found that luck trumps math, but there's just something about 6:5 Blackjack which makes me feel like the casino is just daring you to be a sucker-better to be lucky at 3:2 than 6:5 in my opinion. I worry about more about too much smoke in a casino than I do about other people playing crappy games or casinos daring you to be stupid.

    I agree with those who observe that casinos will continue to push 6:5 Blackjack as long as people play it. If no one played it the 6:5 game would go away, but limits on 3:2 would have to be higher on average to make up the difference. I don't think a Strip casino can make money on a 3:2 table at $10 or $15-the overhead is just too high even considering that people play worse than the odds would suggest and the casino keeps more than you would think according to Nevada gaming numbers. Strip casinos that offer $10 3:2 Blackjack are probably doing it as a courtesy, or a draw, but not as a profit center.
     
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  20. jacmrose

    jacmrose Low-Roller

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    I hate 6:5 BJ as much as anybody. I view it as totally disrespectful to what is truly the greatest casino game ever created. However, I must admit that I have played at a 6:5 table before. I am comfortable playing green chip games, but I will not play at $50 a hand. Its not as much as I can't afford it, but for some reason $50 is the point where my head starts thinking, "wow $50 is a lot of money for a single hand of blackjack." I have no problem increasing my bets to $50+ over the course of a successful session, but as a minimum that is just too high for me. I will always look out for a 3:2 table at $25 or less before I settle for 6:5. But sometimes that just doesn't exist.

    So when I am staying at either Bellagio or Aria, and I want to play some blackjack late at night close to my hotel room, I will play $15 6:5 blackjack. As much as it pains me to do so, it still has a lower HA than 90% of the games in the casino. I do not understand the logic of protesting 6:5 Blackjack and then going to play a slot machine that has a 10% HA. That's not sticking it to the man. The casino is thrilled that you are going to spend money on a slot machine instead of playing a table game that has a 1.8% HA with an employee that requires a wage.

    As much as I would love for 6:5 Blackjack to go away forever, its not going to happen. I live 20 minutes away from the brand new MGM National Harbor in Maryland, and 80% of the tables are 6:5. Same for the Horseshoe in Baltimore. As much as we hate to admit it, 6:5 is here to stay. An entire generation is going to grow up thinking that that is standard procedure. I personally still have a lot of fun at a 6:5 table because 93% of the hands are exactly the same. I grumble and moan when I get paid $18 instead of $22.50 on a blackjack, but I am not going to let $4.50 ruin my trip to Vegas by preventing me from playing the game that I love. People still play video poker with lousy pay tables because they love video poker. People still bet the pair plus in 3 card poker, even though it only pays 3-1 on a flush because they love 3 card poker. I, as an absolute last resort, will play 6:5 blackjack, because I love the game of blackjack. Now feel free to curse me out.
     
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