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Table Games Do you avoid casinos with 6:5 BJ games?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by PALADIN, May 22, 2017.

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Do you avoid casinos with 6:5 BJ games?

  1. Yes

    74 vote(s)
    71.8%
  2. No

    24 vote(s)
    23.3%
  3. It's gambling, so why do I care about the conditions?

    5 vote(s)
    4.9%
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  1. PALADIN

    PALADIN Tourist

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    In a recent post there was an amusing discussion about hitting a soft 11, that is, hitting a black jack. The poster mentioned that naturals at that casino paid 6:5, not 3:2, which prompted one reply asking why anyone would play a 6:5 game? How about explaining to me why anyone would play a 6:5 game except for pure convenience?
    I realize that on the Strip that is all you can find, but just a shuttle ride away are places like the Orleans or the Gold Coast where 3:2 is still the norm. And then there is downtown and the locals casinos on the periphery. As long as gamblers are willing to play a 6:5 game, the casinos are not going to offer anything better.
    In BJ, the greatest advantage is that a natural gives you a 3:2 payoff versus the dealer just getting a winner. Once you diminish or remove (I realize there are some games that pay even money for a 21) that advantage, a game stacked against you gets all the more difficult to win.
    So if you're interested enough to visit this board on table games, explain to me why you're giving the casinos an advantage they don't deserve.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. topcard

    topcard Re-Open Vegas!

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    Simple...I don't.
    Now - to be fair - I will still patronize a casino with 6:5... I just don't play their version of "blackjack"... but UTH? 3-Card? Craps?
    Sure.
     
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  3. LV_Bound

    LV_Bound VIP Whale

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    If one gets to Vegas once or twice a year, why spend what little time available to run around looking for a table?
    If you want to play then play. The money and time spent searching for a 3:2 won't be recouped.
    Also, when you find that 3:2 table are you going to stand around the 2-3 hours waiting to get a seat?
     
  4. 21wins

    21wins VIP Whale

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    I'll go the casino but not play 6:5 (even money) BJ.
    I'll play craps instead.
     
  5. DaiLun

    DaiLun R.C., L.C., and A.A.N.G.

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    I won't play 6:5 Blackjack under ANY circumstances.
     
    Another NGO trip. QQQQ/NYNY
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  6. Ezzy711

    Ezzy711 VIP Whale

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    I play where I stay. If I only played BJ or played it the majority of the time I would stay off strip. I'm there for fun. It's not impossible to walk away a winner from a 6:5 game. I play an hour or so if I'm in the mood at a $10 or $15 table. I also play craps and slots. If I only played the best odds I wouldn't sink a dime into a slot machine other than VP. I enjoy the atmosphere and consider my stake as entertainment money.

    Every trip I think may be my last due to finances, health or shrinking attractive offers. While I still can I will go and enjoy myself and not worry about the $200 I play at blackjack. Some trips the mood doesn't strike me so I don't play at all.
     
  7. saintpauljeff

    saintpauljeff VIP Whale

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    Sometimes it's not worth it to trek over to Gold Coast, Orleans, or downtown just to play $5 3:2 BJ for an hour
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. philculp

    philculp Low-Roller

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    I'm curious about the math involved in this. Say someone was playing for 3 hours at $25 a hand, what is the projected gain of a 3:2 over 6:5? I'm sure someone brighter than me could solve this in no time. Would it account for much? obviously no way to be certain the luck you'll have in a given night, but I've found my winning nights to be based much more on the quantity of double/split hands I get vs the # of bj.

    I guess for me I know it's an extra edge but one that I've never really considered to be enough to justify traveling around when I really just wanna chill out wherever I happen to be instead of sweating it.
     
  9. merlin

    merlin MIA

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    i would bet that 50% of vegas visitors dont even know what 6/5 means, others dont care and fall for the faulty logic that "you dont really get that many BJ's", or "you won, what are you complaining about". To the question about how much are we talking about, typically you will get around 3 BJ's per hour, more if playing alone or at a near empty table. On a $25 table at 3/2 you get $12.50 extra, $5 at a 6/5 ($7.50 per blackjack), so add it up.
     
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  10. HuskerBB

    HuskerBB High-Roller

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    The difference in house advantage between 6:5 and 3:2 is about 1.3%. Doesn't sound like much - but when you figure a "decent" 3:2 game has a house advantage of about 0.7% then you can see that it almost triples the house edge. Plus invariable 6:5 games have other bad rules - no double after splitting etc, which further impact the difference in house edge.

    The original poll question is misleading - I will NEVER play 6:5 -but I play lots of blackjack in casinos that have 6:5 tables. Pretty much every strip casino has 6:5 games - but it is not that hard to find real blackjack on the strip. Other than Aria and Bellagio every place will have it at $25 and if you look you can find tables under $25 at most strip casinos most of the time. The problem is people simply don't pay attention. You often see people playing a $10 or $15 6:5 game when a $15 real blackjack game at a table 20 feet away has empty seats. Makes zero sense but many (probably most) Vegas gamblers don't have a clue about rules or house advantage. Lots of people think all video poker machines are the same too.

    If you play 200 hands of a 6:5 game with a 2% house edge (most 6:5 games will be higher than that) betting $10 a hand your expected lose would be $40. If you play the same 200 hand betting $25 on a real blackjack game with a .07% house edge has an expected loss of $35. The $25 table will have more variance obviously so you have to understand that in terms of bankroll - but that shows the economics in the long run.
     
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  11. jstkrzn

    jstkrzn Tourist

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    I'll be on the strip tomorrow at a 6:5 table. I would rather have $100 last a while rather than freaking out at a $500 roll to play $25 per hand in order to potentialy get an extra $7.50 a hand. My daily bank is for entertainment. If i miss out on 1.3% of an edge, I think I'll be ok.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. 21wins

    21wins VIP Whale

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    It's not only what Merlin is correctly saying.

    I look at it as the casinos can lower the odds and get away with it. If they can get away with this they will adjust odds on other games( I know Bally's has a EVEN money $5 BJ game). To me it's not how much more I'll win-it's if you give in and play 6/5 the casino will start lowering the odds (and increasing house edge) on other games too. Where will it stop if this is let to happen?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  13. topcard

    topcard Re-Open Vegas!

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    There's a huge difference between playing an hour or so a day and playing 10-12 hours a day (as I do).
    I don't take cabs or Uber in order to play real blackjack (3:2)... I simply book myself at properties that have it (or where it's available very nearby).

    I don't wait for an open seat at a 3:2 table... I just go to the next one available...which is typically a very short stroll.
    This is the advantage to staying/playing downtown or off-strip. For the low-rolling blackjack player (who plays several/many hours a day), it really is a no-brainer.

    ...and, to those of you who think the difference is "minimal" - I'll do the math for you... let's use $10 blackjack, 3:2 vs 6:5, playing 6 hours a day, and all other rules are equal:
    3:2 = 18 blackjacks that pay $15 each, or $270.
    6:5 = 18 blackjacks that pay $12 each, or $216.
    That's a $54 improvement for 6 hours of play, or $9/hour.

    For me, it's more like about $20/hour that I'd give up - and I play 10-12 hours a day, so well over a $200/day difference.

    For those of us who play $5 & $10 tables, $200 a day is NOT insignificant... it can very easily be the difference between a "winning" day and a "losing" one.

    Even for the $10 player, playing just 6 hours a day - $54 buys several Uber rides, + an extra meal, making it very economical to bail from the strip for blackjack...and then return for other games, shows, meals, nightclubs & shopping.
    Uber from Mirage to Gold Coast? About $7. Cab? About $10. So - if you don't want to use the free shuttles, you're looking at $14-to-$20 round trip.
    So, you're still $30-to-$40 ahead playing at Gold Coast... break-even betting $10 would be at 2 hours of play. Play more than 2 hours, or bet more than $10? You should make the trip. If less than 2 hours? Stay on the strip & play 6:5.
     
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  14. ams722

    ams722 Side Bet Shunner

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    It's not hard to find 3:2 blackjack on the strip. Most of the casinos that went to 6:5 still have one or two tables of low limit 3:2 if you know where to look.

    As for the poll, do I avoid casinos with 6:5? No. But I sure as hell avoid their tables of 6:5 blackjack. I'll play something else over 6:5...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. topcard

    topcard Re-Open Vegas!

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    AMS722 - good point... if you're going to play a 3% house-advantage game, why not instead play UTH, with it's very modest 2.18% HA and a 0.526% "element of risk" rate.
     
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  16. blissfulignoramus

    blissfulignoramus Low-Roller

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    This addresses a better question than "do you avoid casinos with 6:5 games?"

    Virtually every casino has 6:5 games nowadays. While I might express faux indignation about it, it's not like it actually offends me. What I DO is preferentially visit casinos that offer what I want. A low-minimum authentic blackjack game with reasonable house advantage. A sports book that is comfortable, fun, and will offer me a free drink or six for my patronage. And whatever else might lead to me having a good time. So places that don't have those things are much, much less likely to see me come through their doors. Maybe that can be interpreted as me "avoiding" places with 6:5, but it's really more about me frequenting the places that give me what I want.
     
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  17. Chicken Dinner

    Chicken Dinner Low-Roller

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    Top Card explained it perfectly.
     
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  18. MikeOPensacola

    MikeOPensacola VIP Whale

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    Yep spot on top-down analysis by our resident BJ Guru. Well done Top!!!

    :peace: :beer:
     
    Birthday Week in the Tower Suites
  19. Auggie

    Auggie Dovahkiin

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    Everything you say about the math is correct... but for most people that go to Las Vegas the big thing to keep in mind is that to them "Las Vegas = The Strip"

    To most, Downtown is a place they might visit for an evening once every few trips to see the light show and all the places that are "off strip" don't exist. They come for the luxury that The Strip offers and not to go grind out cheap games and eke out an extra 1-2 percent off the house edge at some dank little joint full of locals and low rollers.

    Yes, some people do, but most don't and thats why there are lots of people playing 6:5 blackjack on The Strip or video poker with "bad" pay tables. Personally, I like to go Downtown for a night on each trip to get in some cheap gambling and see some old games that aren't on The Strip anymore, have stayed at a few places down there as well, but for the most part when I am going to Las Vegas I am going for The Strip, to be in a fancy casino at a nice hotel and for some games I am willing to pay an extra point or two on the house edge to do so.
     
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  20. Breeze147

    Breeze147 Button Man

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    I just want to sit down and play cards. It is only 7 days out of my year and I'm not going hither and yon searching for the perfect game. Not to mention, I wouldn't set foot in The Orleans again if my life depended on it.

    Sorry, folks, I'm 68 and gonna croak or be senile sooner rather than later so I just want to enjoy the moment.
     
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