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Diamond - Level 2 (40,000 Tier Credits)

Discussion in 'Comps' started by meyers67, Jul 24, 2013.

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  1. shifter

    shifter Degenerate Gambler

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    most hosts are total idiots who have no clue how anything works. you'd think they would be "experts" on anything comp related, but they're absolutely not. so what one host says means very little. also they spread a lot of misinformation on purpose to keep people from knowing how everything works. how do I know this? I heard it from my host. :poke:
     
  2. casinoboy

    casinoboy Low-Roller

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    thank you to both of you. that is all i've been trying to say! :peace:
     
  3. casinoboy

    casinoboy Low-Roller

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    i'm not saying adt doesnt matter i know that is the main thing. but your host isnt the one who sends you offers in the mail that comes from cet directly and it is not 100% based just on your adt like the quote kickin posted from the book direct from the horses mouth. your host wont know anything else then the comps he can give you based on your adt but cet does their own marketing to you as well. if you want to believe that two people with the same adt get treated exactly the same by cet corporate for marketing offers then go ahead but that isnt true. if one of them plays a much worse game they will get more offers even if they have the same adt as someone who plays good games.

    we just have to agree to disagree. :beer:
     
  4. LAV

    LAV Tourist

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    CET's data collection is so advanced that just about anyone can get a free room from them. However, not everyone gets the offers of gift cards, etc.

    My point, casinoboy, is that you took hearsay information, and you ran with it as if it is indeed fact. This host was coming up with an excuse for your dad as to why others are getting more than him. Also, relying on Guardian's post, who plays largely VP, with a lower house edge, as a validation, well, that's not so scientific in any means.

    kickinchicken, the information you got was from a book, which does not necessarily translate to completely accurate information, as some information shared is certainly trying to raise the reader's interest level. In any book, there's lots and lots of "untrue" pieces of information. They can be referred to as "scoops."

    If you read the last statement about players punching the buttons faster are more desirable translates to the player having more coin in, hence, higher theo relative to another slot player who just sits and takes their time.

    I equate this suggestion to someone someone that a player inserting a players card directly affects their winning percentage/payout. While clearly possible, it is most definitely improbable.

    As for those of you who don't think that ADT is the primary determining factor for your comps, then I don't know what else to say. True, other factors go into play, but at the end of the day, if you play fairly (i.e., not cheating or gaming the casino), they will look at your overall ADT, over the month, last six months, and the year, to determine your worth and make the offers based on that.

    I always laugh when people with not as much direct experiences with the kind of comps being doled out to players come on and speak with such authority when the info that got was hearsay from one casino employee.
     
  5. LAV

    LAV Tourist

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    I rather not, but I will share a little more about some of the comps offers based on ADT:

    Not including the high rollers or whales, CET makes offers to players based on ADT.

    For offers such as free play, gift cards (Macy's, Sears, etc.), gas cards (Chevron, Shell, Arco), do you what what is the determining factor in what amount a person gets?

    CET makes offers ranging from less than $100 to a maximum of $5,000. Do you know what the ADT is for a person to get the $5,000? I do, and I have on the rare occasion achieved it, but not regularly.

    I have gotten the low amounts, but I tend to get more between $2,000 to $3000. When I got say a $1,500 amount, I asked my host if that amount could be increased. You know what she does? She looks at my ADT. If my ADT justifies, I get it. Almost always I get a higher amount than what the marketing dept offered me. On the rare occasion that she could not accommodate, it was because my ADT was not close enough to the next threshold.

    As for special events as NYE and Superbowl, when all kinds of big players are in town, you know what determines whether someone gets a suite guarantee and someone got an "upgrade request"? That's right, your ADT. Never was there any discussion about the types of games myself or some of the other strong players play.

    Therefore, I would discuss with my host the different theo requirement at each of the CET property to determine where I would stay to guarantee my suite.

    But, again, for those of you who just assume things, feel free to believe that the type of games you play is what they look at. Yes, the types of games you play will directly affect your theo, hence your offers, but they don't look at say a penny slot machine player more desirably than a triple diamond slot player.

    At the end of the day. If they both have the same theo over the same period of time, they generally get similar offers, albeit the offers may differ.

    Still, if they don't get any offers, a call to a host can easily include them into it, but the host will see if they have the minimum required ADT for such a promotion or offer.
     
  6. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    Just looking at it from a business standpoint, ADT is the only metric that makes sense to look at when determining comps and offers...

    "How much do we think they will lose today" - "Value of daily comp" = Profit


    Just to simplify everything...
     
  7. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Not at all. The whole point of ADT is to make a predictive value of your expected play. Any other data you can use to more accurately predict that is worthwhile. It would be like me saying in my business to predict bond values simply looking at Debt/EBITDA or any other single important metric. ADT is not incredibly robust from a statistical standpoint. It may be the single most important piece of data but its by no means uniformly predictive across different games. Its going to be much more predictive on games with lower standard devs and wider confidence intervals for a given loss then it would for games with narrower intervals. This is not even taking into account all the behavioral aspects which is largely what all the other data is used to measure.

    LAV, no one is saying that ADT isn't the primary metric in determining marketing offers. At least I don't think they are saying that. But if as you know the whole point of ADT is to help predict your expected play why would they collect tons of other data that could help increase their accuracy but just ignore it? I think its very simplistic to think they base all their valuation on one simple metric that is ages old, at least as far as corporate marketing offers go (not the % of theo comps). CET has partnered with data analytic firms for over a decade to provide intense analysis on its Total Rewards customers and measure their value using all this data they collect (which is a lot more than you probably expect).

    The book I referenced is well sourced from gaming industry sources included CET themselves. Its not a cable news show where they're trying to offer up something of "shock value" especially when its not shocking at all but just common sense. Craziest thing is to just assume something detailed in a book you never read or never researched is probably made up because it doesn't fit your beliefs based on personal experience. The second half of the NPR podcast BlueSkadoo linked to a few weeks back hits on this as well, for CET specifically, and the reasons Loveman was brought on to focus on the TR program and how its intense predictive approach to customers worth is being copied by companies in many other industries as well.
     
  8. swuulumm

    swuulumm Low-Roller

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    quick question:
    What is the definition of ADT?
     
  9. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    I absolutely agree with you! I guess my point did not come across as I intended. The other data is collected to improve the accuracy of the ADT metric, but ADT is the primary metric used to determine comps.

    All of the other data will be built into the ADT metric, I’m sure they can access the raw data if they desire, but there is no way they are going to say "oh this person presses the spin button really fast...let’s give them free rooms"

    The frequency of the button presses will probably be used to predict session coin-in...A continuous presser will have no down time between spins, where as someone who waits for the wheels to stop before pressing spin again will have some down time between spins. Yes, potentially a fraction of a second but over hundreds/thousands of spins that adds up.

    Type of game, number of lines bet, amount per line, etc will all factor into the ADT metric...but the actual metric will be the number used to determine comp level.

    Other data such as day of the week, time of year, etc will also be used to determine when they offer comps and stuff like that, but not the actual comp level/value.
     
  10. DeMoN2318

    DeMoN2318 The DERS

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    Average Daily Theoretical Loss
     
  11. Kickin

    Kickin Flea

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    Right, the hosts aren't going to know or care about the granular detail of how the systems crunch data. But from what I've read even beyond the traditional comps this other data (like game type, speed of play, etc) helps them determine how to market to different players beyond just expected loss levels. CaptainJack has mentioned CET doesn't actually use traditional ADT but a number called MDV (marketing daily value) it assigns to players. Again, based on what I've read a lot about lately, I imagine this MDV number used traditional ADT (as we all calculate it) along with various other metrics to assign player value.

    Even traditional ADT as we all know it is not an absolute number, it has a confidence level attached to it and that's going to change based on the game and its future value is also going to change based on behavioral measures. Basically if I were a casino manager I'd much rather have a Big 6 player with $1000 ADT vs a blackjack player with $1000 ADT if everything else were equal. That's just based on the statistical confidence I can have of the first players value. Not even factoring in behavioral things that point to reckless gambling.
     
  12. casinoboy

    casinoboy Low-Roller

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    do you work for cet corporate casino marketing?? no you are just a gambler like the rest of us i bet. you say my dads host doesnt speak with authority but your host does? what about the information from cet and the gaming industry in kickin's book,do you have more authority then people at cet too just because you are a gambler at there casinos? i'm a gambler too and am at harrahs right now i am here a couple of times per month. i'd rather trust what people in the industry say and what makes common sense then what some anonymus gambler on the internet tries to say maybe based on the way things were from 30 years ago. just because you gamble high doesnt make you an expert on casinos who knows more then people who work in them and design there systems.

    thank you demon and kickin for your posts.
     
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