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Table Games Craps Do Your Homework / It's Not Fun But Neither Is Losing

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by Da_Nit, Mar 6, 2015.

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  1. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    A DD game with S17 and no doubling restrictions and a 6D game with S17, RSA, DAS and late surrender both have lower HAs. Of course, it requires one to follow basic strategy.
     
  2. PayTriple

    PayTriple VIP Whale

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    And theses games exist where in Vegas?
     
  3. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    The six deck game is very easy to find - I'd say at least 2/3 of strip casinos have it.

    The DD game is less comon. I assume most HL rooms have it. Aria, Bellagio and MGM Grand have it on the main floor, I believe.
     
  4. stackinchips

    stackinchips VIP Whale

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    That's also false. The expected loss on the PL is the same no matter how many odds you put out. The house edge may decrease, but it's only because you're increasing the denominator through added odds. You can expect to lose the same amount on a PL bet whether you put out single odds or 100x.
     
  5. PayTriple

    PayTriple VIP Whale

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    Then I stand corrected. Like I said, I'm always learning on this board.
     
  6. LoveDowntownVegas

    LoveDowntownVegas High-Roller

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    S17 = Stand on soft 17? if yes, I've never seen this table in vegas. although the majority of my BJ play is downtown.

    as for craps. I play to win, but also play to have fun. if I wanted to work, I'd stay home and draw a paycheck for the week!
     
  7. thecarve

    thecarve Misanthrope

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    Yes, stand on soft 17.

    Six Deck: Most MGM properties have them, a few CET places, Wynn, TI, and Trop did last time I played there (though that was a while back). I think even Cosmo does. Some places offer the game at $25 during the day. But $50-100 is more common.

    DD: Other than a few MGM joints, I think this game has been relegated to the HL rooms for the most part.

    That's about the only thing the strip has on DT (from a gambling perspective, anyway). If you're going to play $25/hand or more, you're better off on the strip (or El Cortez).
     
  8. LoveDowntownVegas

    LoveDowntownVegas High-Roller

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    good info, thanks!
     
  9. makikiboy

    makikiboy VIP Whale

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    All games are negative expectation games in the long run. You are incorrect about odds making the game swingier, playing the odds lowers the house advantage.



    While the Hard ways may be considered horrid bets, tell that to the people who happen to be at the table at the right time when the shooter is making lots of hard ways. Yes in the long run if you always play the hard way or BIg Red you will come out the loser but you can also be a big winner if you are betting them when they are being made.


    I was in vegas 2 weeks ago. One shooter happened to be hitting lots of hard ways, he hit the hard 8 4 times during his roll. Some players put $5 on the hard ways and parlayed it if the shooter hit it. A few times they won big because they parlayed their bets.



    Many people go to vegas to gamble and they are looking for the best bets in the house. Yes, not gambling is the best bet but where's the fun in that? The "best bets in the house" claims are made for people who gamble, those are the best bets in the house for gamblers JMHO.
     
  10. USCHawks

    USCHawks High-Roller

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    House advantage and variance are two different things.
     
  11. vegaskid74

    vegaskid74 VIP Whale

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    +100. When people say "the odds bet doesn't add anything to the casino's bottom line", I disagree strongly. Say a guy walks up to a dice table with $100, and the dealer (or his idiot friend) talks him into taking full odds (let's assume 3,4,5x) because it's the "best bet in the house - no house advantage!" While that's technically true, this player would be overbetting his bankroll terribly by taking full odds, and he is almost certain to bust out due to normal variance. I'd bet a lot of players bust out unnecessarily (or at least much more quickly) due to overbetting through the free odds bet. The odds bet creates big variance, and big variance is the casino's friend, not mine, since their pockets are much deeper than mine. I'm certain that while the free odds bet lowers the house advantage, it raises the hold considerably, simply because many players never live to see the long run due to the increased variance. Now if you walk up to the Casino Royale table with $25,000+ in your pocket with the intention of putting chunky black action on the line, by all means bet $5 on the line and take 100x odds, it'll cost you a lot less in the long run.
     
  12. Landshark

    Landshark Way into it...

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    Question regarding tipping dealers... what's the best way to tip them, and how much on say a $10 table?
     
  13. tringlomane

    tringlomane STP Addicted Beer Snob

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    Yeah, basically as long as you bet the table minimum on the pass line, your expected loss per pass line bet is exactly the same no matter what amount of odds you bet. So bet the amount of odds most comfortable to you. I don't play much craps, but I know I don't like a lot of swing. I often will only take single odds or even less. Now if a casino factors in odds bets for comp purposes, then betting more in odds is beneficial.
     
  14. larryg

    larryg Low-Roller

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    If you're not betting maximum odds, you should reduce your pass line bet until maximum odds can be attained.

    If you're already at the table minimum, then the table is too rich for you. You either have to accept wilder swings in your bankroll, or accept a worse house percentage.

    To use an admittedly poor analogy, it's like playing blackjack and saying "I can't afford to split aces, or double down." That person is giving the house a bigger edge.
     
  15. stackinchips

    stackinchips VIP Whale

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    Yes and No. As posted by myself and others above, your expected loss is the same whether you're betting max odds, no odds, or somewhere in between. So while I agree it makes more sense to reduce your PL and increase your odds if you aren't already maxing out your odds (for example betting $25 on the PL with $25 in odds on a $10 table, it would be better to bet $10 on PL and $40 odds), you aren't REALLY giving the house a bigger edge. You're going to "lose" the same amount, you're just increasing the denominator when you increase your odds so on a percentage basis it's less. And as pointed out above, playing above your bankroll in order to take advantage of maximum odds plays even more into the house's favor because your risk of ruin goes way up, which will keep you from ever realizing results close to what the house edge theoretically is.
     
  16. Landshark

    Landshark Way into it...

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    Still learning the game (and hooked solid!), but I remember reading that you shouldn't buy in for less than 30 units of the minimum for the minimal best chance to survive variance. That seemed to work for me last week. But it might just be beginner's luck, lol. :beer:
     
  17. irishdave

    irishdave VIP Whale

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    Newbie to the dark side question. If you're playing a table with 3-4-5 odds, what is the max odds bet on the don't?
     
  18. Landshark

    Landshark Way into it...

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    Max odds on the don't is always 6 times your dp/dc bet.
     
  19. irishdave

    irishdave VIP Whale

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    Thanks!
     
  20. CoveredinBeer

    CoveredinBeer Low-Roller

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    Good. More people should be encouraged to play craps. Nothing beats a hot table. Glad you enjoyed
     
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