1. Welcome to VegasMessageBoard
    It appears you are visiting our community as a guest.
    In order to view full-size images, participate in discussions, vote in polls, etc, you will need to Log in or Register.

Table Games Could Table Games Be Replaced by Machines?

Discussion in 'Table Games' started by marksind, May 16, 2020.

  1. azlefty

    azlefty VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2014
    Messages:
    1,529
    Location:
    West Jordan, UT
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    40
    We can show them by replacing players with robots. Your move, casino.
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Chuck2009x

    Chuck2009x VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2009
    Messages:
    9,683
    Location:
    Boston
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    24
    That could be true. They would be wise to say it out loud at some point down the line, so that people don't write it off based on accounts of the first several months or however long it takes.
     
  3. BlacklabberMike

    BlacklabberMike MIA

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2014
    Messages:
    5,280
    Location:
    Where's Ware?
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    25
    If there were no actual blackjack tables, I wouldn't even go to a casino.
    I've seen those pits with the virtual games and they are not for me.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 2
  4. LB9

    LB9 PH Blackjack Degen

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,813
    Location:
    DC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    Echoing similar sentiments, as an only table game BJ player, who loves the game's social aspect and also sucks at it, if they don't want my 10k over a few trips a year then I'll go elsewhere. If thousands of people do the same, at a point they'll feel it in the aggregate. Short sighted thinking by casinos is nothing new, if they want to artificially increase demand and alienate regular patrons with subterfuge related $100+ tables to play catch up on revenues lost, which will backfire, there's plenty of places that will appreciate the money.

    Frankly, if things turn primarily electronic I may just stop going entirely. I'm buying a new house this year anyway, probably a smarter move would be a larger down payment there.

    Of course this is all speculative, so I'm interested to hear some anecdotes from June and July revelers to see if my Aug trip is on, or if I'll be going back within the next year for that matter.
     
    Ballys Nov 13 - 16
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  5. bobby jones

    bobby jones VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    1,400
    Location:
    Great white North
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    12
    You already see that at Fallsview. Impossible to get a $10 BJ table even 6:5 but, they have a stadium set up where you can be $5
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. notfromconcentrate

    notfromconcentrate Connoisseur of dive casinos and obnoxious outfits

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    Messages:
    4,445
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    14
    Admittedly I don’t know Fallsview and it’s clientele that well... but it’s always struck me as far more of a tourist casino than a locals casino. I feel like it might be different in an area that sees very little tourism.
     
  7. Turtleman

    Turtleman VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,860
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    110
    El Cortez, at least when I've been there, had face up double deck BJ dealt from a shoe! Maybe somewhere else has it too, but the Elco is the only place I've seen it. Personally, I prefer handling the cards, but it's not a deal breaker. And since I won't go back until things are much closer to "normal," it won't affect me unless DD games disappear permanently.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Turtleman

    Turtleman VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    3,860
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    110
    Same here, including BJ, Pai Gow poker, etc. While I play a little VP, usually bar top when I need a break from the "real games," flying across the country to push buttons on a machine all day has no appeal for me. That's not a disparaging comment, and I have some friends that only play machines, but it's just not for me.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. HoppinHardWays

    HoppinHardWays High-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2018
    Messages:
    683
    Location:
    OMA
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    9
    This, nothing can replace the live game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  10. 3544quebec

    3544quebec High-Roller

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    642
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    5
    Is there a bar fridge in the base where the cocktail waitress can stack Red Bulls?

    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  11. bobby jones

    bobby jones VIP Whale

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2014
    Messages:
    1,400
    Location:
    Great white North
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    12
    Fallsview more touristy and Casino Niagara (original) more locals
     
  12. Electroguy563

    Electroguy563 Over-Fried Gambler

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2011
    Messages:
    6,969
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    21
    This makes sense however, what if enough of us low-rollers say the same thing? What if enough low rollers decide to take their money and do other things instead of going to Vegas. Not sure if many would but I for one am thinking along those lines if my table games as a low roller becomes scarce or obsolete. If I can enjoy my vacations doing other things within my budget I certainly believe I can say "Thanks, Vegas but I'm moving on."

    I often entertained the thought of would Vegas as a whole suffer if the majority of the visitors decide it's not worth it anymore and either visit less or none altogether. I always believed the low rollers (which are the majority of visitors) fueled a significant portion of the Vegas profit machine.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wow! Wow! x 1
  13. Farner

    Farner Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2017
    Messages:
    404
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    52
    If it comes to vegas, I would trust that the casinos will do whatever gets the most revenue per square foot. We just don’t know if the cost of live games will increase (I suspect that) or by how much. This will drive the minimum etc. If I’d run a casino right now, I would try to figure out who my customers are after COVID and see what they are willing to pay. In my mind, there is little doubt that we all will have to pay extra for live games, the question is only how much and how many of us are willing to pay $$$ more. I can’t wait to see what the geniuses at CET, MGM etc have in mind for us. All I know what is one their, as it should: Gaming Revenue Per Square Foot. https://gaming.unlv.edu/abstract/downtown_ lv_gamingrev_persqft.html
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. notfromconcentrate

    notfromconcentrate Connoisseur of dive casinos and obnoxious outfits

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2015
    Messages:
    4,445
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    14
    I believe that this is true, but only to the extent that such players can be steered towards more profitable games.

    When you see how full triple-zero roulette and 6:5 blackjack tables can get with low-rolling players, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to see even more adjustments to odds can be made in order for low-rolling games to be made possible.

    The players who can be persuaded into playing such games are what the casinos are counting on, IMO. A perfect strategy blackjack player who knows to look for a 3:2 table who will generate less than $10 per hour in theo is not.

    To me, I believe that the casino has the upper hand in the game of chicken we’re talking about. Low rollers might say they’ll vote with their wallets and not come... but that will only filter out those players who weren’t very profitable anyway.
     
  15. LB9

    LB9 PH Blackjack Degen

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,813
    Location:
    DC
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    10
    I think at the end of the day the casinos need to remain cognizant that they're not in the driver's seat, those of us with disposable income are. And in the current situation where the real unemployment rate is between 22-25%, those of us who (thankfully) have said disposable income, which is going higher and higher as we have nothing to spend it on, should be catered to. By pulling popular table games carte blanche, that will not help them. Limiting to 3 per table is sensible, getting rid of a segment of games altogether is a terrible business move.

    I'm not rich nor will I ever be, but if my offers aren't at a minimum the same as they had been prior to COVID, if not better, I'm happy to spend my money on a trip to Panama, buying my wife diamond earing jackets, helping save for our new house, etc. In other words, sensible things with an objectively better return on investment.

    I'm only a CET player so to be objective, I'll wait until multiple properties open after CP and the other one do initially, which may not be until Fall. However, after that, if I'm not getting comped rooms on weekends at properties I stay at (PH, Ballys) and at least $200 food/$75 FP, which is identical to what I was getting prior everyday during the year, I'm done. I've consistently been going 2-3 times to Vegas, 1-2 to AC, for the last decade or so. CET knows what they get with me insofar as perceived and actual generated revenue, I haven't won anything significant for years but I'm routine and enjoy it.

    I was hammered with my best friend at a drop in the first week of March this year in New Orleans, my most recent gambling trip right before all this stuff happened. I played at a far higher clip than I normally play and thus, my offers, when they're finally re-generated, should be higher. I also didn't stay nor take any comps at Harrah's. CET will make the decision easy for me if they screw me and others in my situation, a habitual mid-roller who they can generate a good amount of revenue from. While I'm objective and fair, if an aggregate of people put their foot down in the event that CET or other large casino companies pull some nonsense and put their nose up at players who: spend a good amount, are low maintenance and don't ask for much, and come on a regular basis with a 10 year track record, they deserve to fail and I'll have zero sympathy. While it would be unfortunate for employees who may be unintended pawns in the equation, a casino company isn't the most difficult to run insofar as revenue when juxtaposed versus others. The algorithm is patently obviously. While red chippers don't deserve RFB, $100+ per hand BJ players should never pay for a room at CET properties (save for Nobu and Cromwell to be fair) and should continue to get ancillary, marketing offers such as a set amount of food and FP. I rarely use my host but for a trip late May, which is obviously now cancelled, he combined multiple offers for me which VIP services had historically told me weren't combinable. While I don't expect this level of treatment right away, if we're dealing with stingy bullshit in 12 months, it's their loss.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2020
    Ballys Nov 13 - 16
    • Like Like x 1
  16. topcard

    topcard Celebrating 40 Years of Vegas Trips in 2020!

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2012
    Messages:
    6,832
    Location:
    Fort Worth
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    94
    Both the Plaza and Golden Gate also had their DD game (3:2, DAS permitted, $25 min) tables dealt face up from a two-deck shoe.
    Last time I was at the Plaza (Dec. 2019), they were dealing their game by hand, with players holding their cards... GG was still using the shoe.
    From the perspective of some players ;) , this actually has a slight advantage over a hand-dealt game, as you're able to see all player cards immediately as they are dealt. (Others may find such an "edge" as meaningless, but I don't.)
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  17. GeorgeJ.

    GeorgeJ. High-Roller

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    899
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    40
    I would be OK if the casinos changed PaiGow to where the dealer would set each players hand for them so the players wouldn't be touching the cards..they could set them the house way and if you wanted to play your hand differently you could have them change it..
    Blackjack with all players cards dealt face up would be fine with me.
    I wouldn't mind if players cards on the poker games (like Ultimate Texas Hold 'em) were dealt up so you wouldn't have to touch them. The casinos probably wouldn't go for that though since they think it lowers the house edge if you can see what everyone else has..
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Love Love x 1
  18. bubbakitty

    bubbakitty Doing retirement again and happily so....

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2003
    Messages:
    8,476
    Location:
    Texas
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    65
    The dealer hits a 5 card 21 two hands in a row where you had 20 both times, doubling once on 11. She / he would shrug as you mouthed “WTF?”
    Ok, let’s go to video blackjack and something similar happens as often as with real cards; but we’re not WITH real cards. What me thinks then?
    I see it as a disastrous choice for old timers. The younger set could (some of them) see the value in a 500$ bottle of cuervo gold. It may happen but it will take time to erase the oldsters from the spaces that time apparently forgot.
     
    At last, and finally it's close.
  19. JaDubya

    JaDubya High Roller? Nah...just a Roller

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2020
    Messages:
    756
    Location:
    California
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    40
    I’ve always had a hard time taking some of these video blackjack games serious when they have a virtual dealer who looks like this (see below). It doesn’t motivate me to bet big. I’d actually feel self conscious sitting at that machine. I’d probably pick the fat, bald guy option if it was available.

    77D2FD62-555A-481C-B534-964A3C2260DF.jpeg
     
  20. Gator5220

    Gator5220 Low-Roller

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    Messages:
    176
    Location:
    Florida
    Trips to Las Vegas:
    27

    It is difficult to make a case against robo-games based on sanitary reasons. I do believe that placement of robo-games on the casino floor will accelerate because of Covid19 but more for an economic reason that sanitary. That casinos are coming out of nearly a quarter of the year with no revenue and are going into a quarter or more of partial revenue there will be changes driven by recessionary pressures and I fear that will mean less live dealers.

    One of the largest controllable cost is personnel. The cost of a full-time dealer is far beyond the hourly wage. You have employer portions of Medicare and SS taxes, 401 matches, parking, employee dining, uniforms, paid time off, medical insurance, unemployment insurance, proportioned costs for HR and supervision, and other minor ancillary costs of labor. The cost of a robo-dealer is direct electrical consumption, cost of the unit, proportion of maintenance, and I don’t know what else, maybe licensing or revenue sharing.

    As for red chippers not going to certain casinos in protest of expanded robo-dealers. Well, we’d be naive to think that cost hasn’t already been factored in. Players clubs already track us on play and spend in their casinos and I’m sure the actuaries and accountants have already pulled all the data on live table game only players and run different estimates of future non-participation of said players. The casinos probably have solid projections of the cost and revenue effect on any changes to gaming including reduction or elimination of live game dealers.

    I love Las Vegas for the liveliness and energy of the crowds and the excitement those crowds create at live tables. That said I know I wouldn’t go to Las Vegas if it were all robo-dealers. But I’m sure that the casino company already knows that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1